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Shaft Flex doesn't matter! - Mark Crossfield - Page 5

post #73 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

Yes, of course.  But can you tell the difference between Project X 5.5 and 6.0?  Or any other shaft in stiff and regular?  Or even the same shaft stepped?  Crossfield argues that flex is not important at all. Yet fitters and golf club manufacturers argue that it does matter.  Unless you set up a blind study with tons of data, the actual effect of shaft on ball flight cannot be determined.

 

I think he is more arguing, in the numbers there is no significant difference between flexes. He tested out two different shafts, that had a good difference in flex. I will say that I think a more solid test would be to take the lowest flex and highest flex in the same shaft model. It's tough to compare two different shafts because their bend profiles could be different. This is why the lettering on the club really means nothing at all because a stiff flex in one brand isn't the same as another. If you have a bend profile that is overly softer than another shaft, then their stiffer flex might be another brand/model's regular flex. 

 

What I take from this is, as Mark says numerous times, get fitted. Go see which combination works best for you in feel and numbers.  

 

I agree, if you take Project X, and go down half a flex, you'll be hard pressed to tell the difference. 

 

Maybe I'll go to golfsmith this weekend. I'll demo some clubs, and hits some shots with different shaft models and flexes. I'll take pictures of the numbers and write down some thoughts on it. 

 

Honestly I don't care about what flex the club is, I'm just going to hit golf balls. 

post #74 of 80
Thread Starter 

My own personal test, with the GC2 launch monitor. 

 

Lucky enough to have the demos of the G30, both in 9 degree lofts. One was in their SR flex (lightest flex shaft), and the other in their Tour 65 Stiff flex. 

 

So by all regards, from Ping's website, these shafts should be worlds apart. I did flex them, the SR was very flexible compared to the Tour 65 shaft.l 

 

Here are the results. 

 

 

 

 

First 4 are with the SR flex, and the last 4 are with the Tour 65 Stiff flex. Here is a summary of the numbers

 

Club CHS Ball S LA HA Spin Descent Carry Offline Peak H Smash
G30 - 9.5 degree, TFC 419D - SR 114.8 167.0 14.9 2.7 3168.8 48.5 281.5 -22.3 55.3 1.455
G30 - 9.0 degree, Tour 65 - Stiff 115.5 168.4 16.0 2.6 2741.3 48.0 295.0 -23.0 57.3 1.458

 

I tried to get 4-5 shots that had similar ball speeds with similar club head speeds to confirm solid strikes. 

 

Ball speed is 1.4 mph more with the Tour 65 shaft. Clubhead speed was also 0.7 mph faster. Smash factor was better as well.  Overall I get more distance with the Stiffer flex.

 

So number-wise, 11-12% reduction in spin rate. How I was hitting both very similar in strike, as you can see by the Smash Factor. 

 

For me, optimally I might even go with their heavier shaft they offer. They do offer a bit of a stouter shaft than the Tour 65 Stiff, or maybe a custom option. 

 

Punching these numbers into Flightscope to authenticate them a bit,

 

G30 - 9.5 degree, TFC 419D - SR - Carry 288, Peak H 136 feet (43 yards)

G30 - 9.0 degree, Tour 65 - Stiff - Carry 296, Peak H 136 feet (43 yards)

 

Now as for the feel. I like the Tour 65 better. The 419D is a softer shaft, but it felt a bit too wild in the swing. Not sure if that would produce a more wild dispersion or not, but personal preference, I feel more comfortable with the Tour 65 that I tested. 

post #75 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

My own personal test, with the GC2 launch monitor. 

Lucky enough to have the demos of the G30, both in 9 degree lofts. One was in their SR flex (lightest flex shaft), and the other in their Tour 65 Stiff flex. 

So by all regards, from Ping's website, these shafts should be worlds apart. I did flex them, the SR was very flexible compared to the Tour 65 shaft.l 

Here are the results. 



 


First 4 are with the SR flex, and the last 4 are with the Tour 65 Stiff flex. Here is a summary of the numbers
























Club CHS Ball S LA HA Spin Descent Carry Offline Peak H Smash
G30 - 9.5 degree, TFC 419D - SR 114.8 167.0 14.9 2.7 3168.8 48.5 281.5 -22.3 55.3 1.455
G30 - 9.0 degree, Tour 65 - Stiff 115.5 168.4 16.0 2.6 2741.3 48.0 295.0 -23.0 57.3 1.458


I tried to get 4-5 shots that had similar ball speeds with similar club head speeds to confirm solid strikes. 

Ball speed is 1.4 mph more with the Tour 65 shaft. Clubhead speed was also 0.7 mph faster. Smash factor was better as well.  Overall I get more distance with the Stiffer flex.

So number-wise, 11-12% reduction in spin rate. How I was hitting both very similar in strike, as you can see by the Smash Factor. 

For me, optimally I might even go with their heavier shaft they offer. They do offer a bit of a stouter shaft than the Tour 65 Stiff, or maybe a custom option. 

Punching these numbers into Flightscope to authenticate them a bit,

G30 - 9.5 degree, TFC 419D - SR - Carry 288, Peak H 136 feet (43 yards)
G30 - 9.0 degree, Tour 65 - Stiff - Carry 296, Peak H 136 feet (43 yards)

Now as for the feel. I like the Tour 65 better. The 419D is a softer shaft, but it felt a bit too wild in the swing. Not sure if that would produce a more wild dispersion or not, but personal preference, I feel more comfortable with the Tour 65 that I tested. 

I can see dif. spin rates. how was left or right ball flight? did on shaft by your eye get to target better then the other?
post #76 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by motsco View Post


I can see dif. spin rates. how was left or right ball flight? did on shaft by your eye get to target better then the other?

 

Both averaged -23 yards left. 

 

What i have read from other similar comparisons, there is no significant trend for dispersion when it comes to shaft flex. That is totally based on the golfer, and how their swing adapts to the shaft. 

post #77 of 80

Is this an opinion mainly on drivers, or woods and irons, too?

post #78 of 80

Since most folks like this video, I may be in the minority here.

Nothing against the video author, as I've watched many of his YouTube clips in the past and enjoyed them.  I even subscribe to his channel.

 

I've noticed HUGE differences between different flex shafts.

Admittedly, they are also different brand/model of shaft as well.

I had a R flex Fujikura VistaPro shaft in a Cleveland driver, and it hit hooks and duckhooks all day long.

I switched it out for a 78 gram R flex Fujikura FitOn 370 shaft, and it hits great now.  And straight.  And further due to the straightness.

Same flex, different model, and definitely different CPM and Torque in those shafts.

I've also got a stock S flex in a Titleist 909D2 driver, and it feels softer than the new R flex shaft in that Cleveland.

And I've got an S flex in a Cobra driver, an Aldila VS Proto By You shaft.   It feels WAY too stiff, to the point that it hits low baby-fades.  It loses distance, since it doesn't kick or square up.

I've used a ton of shafts in my days, and flex definitely affects distance and dispersion both.

Plus, one company's R flex may be stiffer than another company's S flex.

Even with the same make and model, there can be wide disparity.

Another YouTube video shows that some TaylorMade stock shafts vary by as much as a full flex and a half, even though they were supposed to all be the same.

For all we know, these shafts were never tested indepently, so there could be almost no variance between the X and the S flex tested here.

As mentioned earlier, Iike Mark Crossfied's videos on YouTube, but this one proves almost nothing.

 

Get tested on a launch monitor, then purchase the exact driver you were hitting well, not a same model one off the rack. 

post #79 of 80

i always thought that Flex is Directly related to clubhead speed.

i was told that the Fujikura Speeder changes from S to XS occurs at 115 MPH which is what my clubhead speed is and hence my deliemma.

I currenlty run the Fijikura Speeder S , as the XS felt too Harsh in the hands

post #80 of 80

Guys,  it's really hard to take Mark Crossfield seriously!

 

refers to aRBZ  shaft test he did two years ago in which he more or less states the complete opposite

to what he is now saying.

Frankly its like his comments about Taylormade loft up until he went along and found out they were right ( effectively they fitted him properly to the club)

Suddenly its in his bag! The Taylormade loft up video  is also on his channel. The best part of it is the look on Taylormade fitters face when

Mark starts  on about bringing has launch monitor ( Taylormade use Trackman as it doesn't rely on algorithms in the software to determine ballflight spin etc.).

 

Interestingly when Mark did the RBZ test he was also using trackman.

 

I've experienced what Wishon talks about in terms of fitting to your swing. I've had a fitting where I couldn't even launch the ball with three shafts,

Two launched very inconsistently and one I just striped it every time.(Ys6)

I'm with JGolfer on this.  

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