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What Should I Have Done? - Page 2

post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post

No, only the scorer and the player need sign the scorecard. You need two signatures to turn it in to the tournament organizer and that's always the first thing they check for.

In our tournaments, since all 4 players are opponents, all sign. It's kind of a pain in the a--, but there are reasons just like you've stated.

I've never really thought of the problem as you stated it (he signed a card with when you know he had the incorrect score). Usually, once the next tee shot is hit, the score is what it is. So this is a weird. How would you verify he signed the incorrect score? That's why our group always calls out their scores, so there is evidence (unless everybody's drunk).

If someone calls out an incorrect score, politely say, "I think you had a 10 on the hole" and recount the strokes. If you're not sure, it is a gentlemen's (and ladies) game and move on. But I would be counting his strokes on the remaining holes.

You're not being a prick. You are playing by the rules. So should he.

As for the talking, just say, "Talking during another's turn is a rules violation that could lead to DQ". Jokingly tell them "No charge for the rules lesson." They might get PO's at you, but what do you care. He's a cheater.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by vangator View Post

In our tournaments, since all 4 players are opponents, all sign. It's kind of a pain in the a--, but there are reasons just like you've stated.

 

That's not typical.

 

Even on the PGA Tour, you keep one player's card, even Thu/Fri. You have a tear-off strip for your scores. That's it.

 

I've run some tournaments this year too, or helped, and we hand each player their scorecard and then have them pass them to their left.

post #21 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

High school tournament right? Couldn't you have spoke to someone about it.

No, it was an extra tournament through the city. I would've asked the coach if he wasn't also one of the tournament organizers and therefore one of the people who would directly disqualify the player. It was just something that I never would have predicted happening, but I suppose it teaches a lesson well that way.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vangator View Post
I've never really thought of the problem as you stated it (he signed a card with when you know he had the incorrect score). Usually, once the next tee shot is hit, the score is what it is. So this is a weird. How would you verify he signed the incorrect score? That's why our group always calls out their scores, so there is evidence (unless everybody's drunk).

At the end of a tournament round you always get together at least with your marker (usually the whole group convenes in the same location since you are marking for the third person in the group) to verify that the hole by hole scores are correct. We played in a group of three so we all had to be in the same spot (I was marking for player 2, who was marking for the aforementioned player, who was marking for me) as a matter of convenience. I heard him state it wrong once the hole was done and again when we were verifying the cards.

 

Anyways, I think in the future I will definitely be taking a more firm approach towards people like him.

post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
 

 I had to repeatedly (~5-7 times) ask him and his caddy (who was his girlfriend) to be quiet during both mine and our playing partner's swings due to their loud conversation. There were also three times before I started asking them to be quiet where they would talk as I would about to swing so I would step back and look at them until they stopped.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

It's not just a courtesy. It's in the Rules of Golf.

 

@Pretzel  You asked politely several times, most players would only need to ask once and maybe overlook a second occurrence.

This situation was getting out of hand and you should have called for a rules official or the pro staff and this would stop the nonsense.

As @iacas indicated  "It's not just a courtesy. It's in the Rules of Golf."

 

This clearly was due to the immaturity of the player and his girlfriend/caddie.

You may never have an occurrence of this again, but now you have idea's to address the situation should you need.

 

The other situation about the wrong score, should have been addressed immediately when the score was recorded.

To call out a player after they attest their round, is not good sportsmanship.

 

 

Club Rat

post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

That's not typical.

Even on the PGA Tour, you keep one player's card, even Thu/Fri. You have a tear-off strip for your scores. That's it.

I've run some tournaments this year too, or helped, and we hand each player their scorecard and then have them pass them to their left.

This is a custom our league adopted. There must be some history there. We still get cards with no signatures, so we should probably do what everybody else does and just do one signature.

BTW, Pretzel, congrats on finishing second. a1_smile.gif
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by vangator View Post

I was called one time when a practice swing caused a leaf to fall from a tree. I learned a rule that day.

 

 

A single leaf falling from a practice swing is not always subject to penalty.  An excerpt of Decision 13-2/0.5 follows.

 

13-2/0.5

Meaning of "Improve" in Rule 13-2

Q.Rule 13-2 prohibits a player from improving certain areas. What does "improve" mean?

A.In the context of Rule 13-2, "improve" means to change for the better so that the player gains a potential advantage with respect to the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or the area in which he is to drop or place a ball. Therefore, merely changing an area protected by Rule 13-2 will not be a breach of Rule 13-2 unless it creates such a potential advantage for the player in his play.

Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

  • repairs a small pitch-mark on his line of play five yards in front of his ball prior to making a 150-yard approach shot from through the green;
  • accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected; or
  • whose ball lies in thick rough 180 yards from the green, walks forward and pulls strands of grass on his line of play and tosses them in the air to determine the direction of the wind...

 

... The determination as to whether a player has gained a potential advantage from his actions is made by reference to the situation immediately prior to his stroke. If there is a reasonable possibility that the player's action has created a potential advantage, the player is in breach of Rule 13-2.

post #25 of 29

I've yet to play in a tournament but this signing of other player's cards is interesting.  Do any tournament players here record their playing partner's strokes in addition to their own?  I think I would, maybe not if I was playing in a group of 4 but a two-some.. I think I would definitely record my partner's strokes to make sure they match up at the end of the round.

post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strandly View Post
 

I've yet to play in a tournament but this signing of other player's cards is interesting.  Do any tournament players here record their playing partner's strokes in addition to their own?  I think I would, maybe not if I was playing in a group of 4 but a two-some.. I think I would definitely record my partner's strokes to make sure they match up at the end of the round.

That is the only way to do it.  The official card for your opponent/fellow competitor is the one you're keeping.  The little tear off at the bottom is for your own scores so you can verify at the end that he wrote all of yours down correctly.

post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

That is the only way to do it.  The official card for your opponent/fellow competitor is the one you're keeping.  The little tear off at the bottom is for your own scores so you can verify at the end that he wrote all of yours down correctly.

 

I see.

post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkuehn1952 View Post

A single leaf falling from a practice swing is not always subject to penalty.  An excerpt of Decision 13-2/0.5 follows.

13-2/0.5



Meaning of "Improve" in Rule 13-2



Q.Rule 13-2 prohibits a player from improving certain areas. What does "improve" mean?
A.In the context of Rule 13-2, "improve" means to change for the better so that the player gains a potential advantage with respect to the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or the area in which he is to drop or place a ball. Therefore, merely changing an area protected by Rule 13-2 will not be a breach of Rule 13-2 unless it creates such a potential advantage for the player in his play.
Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:
  • repairs a small pitch-mark on his line of play five yards in front of his ball prior to making a 150-yard approach shot from through the green;
  • accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected; or
  • whose ball lies in thick rough 180 yards from the green, walks forward and pulls strands of grass on his line of play and tosses them in the air to determine the direction of the wind...

... The determination as to whether a player has gained a potential advantage from his actions is made by reference to the situation immediately prior to his stroke. If there is a reasonable possibility that the player's action has created a potential advantage, the player is in breach of Rule 13-2.

Thanks, that is nice to know and I'll keep this for future reference. The one who called me on this is a former professional who really thought any leaf falling was a penalty. The rule decisions are vital to read to really understand the rules of golf.
post #29 of 29
Honestly, you did not do this guy and his girlfriend any favors by not getting on them. All they will do now is think their behavior and cheating is acceptable. I was in a tournament one time and was playing with some older guys. I made a mistake and signed an incorrect scorecard and got called for it. It sucked but I learned a lesson that has helped me make absolute sure now that I sign the right score.

If you want to cheat all the time and give yourself better scores then fine but if we are playing for money you better play by the rules. You keep disrupting me while I am swinging and I am going to make it clear to you that I am not going to tolerate it. You hit your ball into me we are going to have words.

If you do not confront these types of people all they will do is continue their behavior, if someone puts them in their place they tend to figure out that they needs to shape up. If they want to be a real butt about it just report them to the appropriate authority of the event or course and let them handle it from there.
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