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Dustin Johnson taking a leave of absence from tour, Suspended for cocaine use - Page 22

post #379 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
 

I definitely respect your opinion. The one thing that I disagree with is the part in bold though. Obviously he made his own decisions and chose to do what he did. However, some people do not have coping mechanisms that function as well as other people's. Some people cope just fine until a massive amount of "stuff" catches up to them and they crash. There are some people who carry on in life and understand that life has a lot of ups and downs and they can deal with it in a healthy and productive way. Other people simply do not discard the downs like bent cards in a deck though and they just keep piling up until the tower collapses (such a simple-minded example there, but hey it works in context...). When the people of the latter are offered an "out" and they experience a high, those few seconds, minutes or hours of bliss are worth a lot to them. It's a quick escape from everything that is bothering them and the feeling is simply addicting and can overpower rational thoughts.

I'm not saying everyone should hold hands and pray for DJ and feel awful for the guy, or write him any cards. What I'm saying is that nobody knows how this guy's brain works and what he goes through, or even puts himself through, mentally. People are too prone to write people off and say "F it, they did this to themselves. Now let them fix it, or they can weed themselves out of society". What some people fail to realize is that people with addiction or depression sometimes do not know how to cope with "life" and "drama" in general. Those downs keep piling up and overshadow all of the ups, including fame, money, beautiful women, vacations, yachts, etc.

Compassion doesn't have to come in the form of tears and prayers. Compassion can be as simple as taking a moment to say "Damn, the guy has some issues. Hopefully he works through them and gets help". 

(@CoolBreeze20 I only quoted your post to "generalize". I'm not directing anything at you specifically. I just wanted to elaborate in blanket fashion and you provided an example for me to work with. By "some people" in my long rant, I'm just referring to people in society in general - not just here on TST).

Also, to the general "he made a conscious decision" people ... do you know that for sure?  What's a more likely scenario for somebody's first cocaine usage:

 

He was playing Hungry Hungy Hippos with his neice while drinking chocolate milk and watching Frozen during a pajama party and just decided it would be a good time to try coke?

 

Or

 

He was out partying (read: drinkning) with friends, and possibly heavily, and a friend happened to have some and offered it to him?

 

Anybody else here ever been drunk before?  Anybody else made dumbass decisions while drunk?  Not necessarily to the level of cocaine, but the point being, it's entirely possible that his "decision" to start down that stupid path was made with anything but a "conscious" mind.

post #380 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Also, to the general "he made a conscious decision" people ... do you know that for sure?  What's a more likely scenario for somebody's first cocaine usage:

 

He was playing Hungry Hungy Hippos with his neice while drinking chocolate milk and watching Frozen during a pajama party and just decided it would be a good time to try coke?

 

Or

 

He was out partying (read: drinkning) with friends, and possibly heavily, and a friend happened to have some and offered it to him?

 

Anybody else here ever been drunk before?  Anybody else made dumbass decisions while drunk?  Not necessarily to the level of cocaine, but the point being, it's entirely possible that his "decision" to start down that stupid path was made with anything but a "conscious" mind.

 

The old "I was drunk, so it wasn't my fault" defense?  

 

I admit to having tried that a few times back in the days of my misspent youth.  Never worked for me either.  ;-)

post #381 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Also, to the general "he made a conscious decision" people ... do you know that for sure?  What's a more likely scenario for somebody's first cocaine usage:

 

He was playing Hungry Hungy Hippos with his neice while drinking chocolate milk and watching Frozen during a pajama party and just decided it would be a good time to try coke?

 

Or

 

He was out partying (read: drinkning) with friends, and possibly heavily, and a friend happened to have some and offered it to him?

 

Anybody else here ever been drunk before?  Anybody else made dumbass decisions while drunk?  Not necessarily to the level of cocaine, but the point being, it's entirely possible that his "decision" to start down that stupid path was made with anything but a "conscious" mind.

I've never been so drunk that I'd do coke or anything else stupid enough that it would ruin my life.  Point is we don't know, we're all speculating.  Some prefer to speculate to give DJ the benefit of the doubt, others believe that he needs to own and take responsibility for some if not all his actions.

 

I doubt anyone (except Shorty) wishes anything bad on DJ, it's really just a difference in opinion of where we believe personal responsibility begins and ends.

post #382 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Great post and for a lot of people I agree they are not mentally equipped to deal with life's challenges and deserve more compassion and sympathy than criticism.

 

 

I agree.  Great post and I don't disagree with the majority of it.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

 

  • Sleeping with not one but two wives of guys on Tour.  You can say what you want about the wives roles in this, but it's a dirtbag move to sleep with someone's wife, especially when you work with the guys and are all vocal about their Christian beliefs, including DJ.

Yep.  That's just guy code.

You don't mess with another man's wife/girlfriend, especially if you're supposed to be on good terms with that person.

I really don't care about the Christian belief part.  I've learned in life that holding certain beliefs does not mean a single thing as far as someone's character.  Beliefs don't make you a good or bad person.  Actions do.  If believing in god made people a good person, the jails would be empty.

post #383 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Breeze View Post
 

I agree.  Great post and I don't disagree with the majority of it.

 

 

Yep.  That's just guy code.

You don't mess with another man's wife/girlfriend, especially if you're supposed to be on good terms with that person.

I really don't care about the Christian belief part.  I've learned in life that holding certain beliefs does not mean a single thing as far as someone's character.  Beliefs don't make you a good or bad person.  Actions do.  If believing in god made people a good person, the jails would be empty.

My reasoning for mentioning Christian beliefs is to point out they should share a common view on the sacrament of marriage and role it plays in their faith.

post #384 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Also, to the general "he made a conscious decision" people ... do you know that for sure?  

 

 

but the point being, it's entirely possible that his "decision" to start down that stupid path was made with anything but a "conscious" mind.

Well if he didn't make a conscious decision to do blow, he put himself in the position to not be in his right mind.  If he was so drunk that he wasn't thinking straight, okay.  But he chose to get that drunk.

 

Any way you slice it, the situation he is in is because of choices that he made.  That's all I'm saying.

 

If you lay down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

post #385 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

The old "I was drunk, so it wasn't my fault" defense?

 

I admit to having tried that a few times back in the days of my misspent youth.  Never worked for me either.  ;-)

No, not saying it wasn't his fault, just saying that people are suggesting that he made conscious decisions.  We don't really know that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I've never been so drunk that I'd do coke or anything else stupid enough that it would ruin my life.  Point is we don't know, we're all speculating.  Some prefer to speculate to give DJ the benefit of the doubt, others believe that he needs to own and take responsibility for some if not all his actions.

You keep saying those things like they're mutually exclusive.  Why can't we have compassion for the guy and hope he can recover while at the same time believing that he needs to own and take responsibility for his actions?  Heck, that's basically exactly what I was saying to you way back when you said he made a mistake by not lying and telling people he had back problems again (or something) in his statement.  I said, no way, he needs to be truthful about this because that's the first step to recovery.

 

Nobody's suggesting that Dustin is a victim.

 

And you are correct about the speculating part.  My view is always to give benefit of the doubt if you're speculating.  How could you not??  What's worse:  A guilty man is set free or an innocent man is hanged??


Edited by Golfingdad - 8/5/14 at 12:56pm
post #386 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

No, not saying it wasn't his fault, just saying that people are suggesting that he made conscious decisions.  We don't really know that.

 

You keep saying those things like they're mutually exclusive.  Why can't we have compassion for the guy and hope he can recover while at the same time believing that needs to own and take responsibility for his actions.  Heck, that's basically exactly what I was saying to you way back when you said he made a mistake by not lying and telling people he had back problems again (or something) in his statement.  I said, no way, he needs to be truthful about this because that's the first step to recovery.

 

Nobody's suggesting that Dustin is a victim.

 

And you are correct about the speculating part.  My view is always to give benefit of the doubt if you're speculating.  How could you not??  What's worse:  A guilty man is set free or an innocent man is hanged??

Agreed 100%. You don't have to be on one side of the fence or the other when you're wishing the guy well and being sympathetic to his situation, while knowing that the issue is caused by his own actions. Taking responsibility is the first step in recovery and getting well.

We don't know what goes on in DJ's personal life, or how he came to use drugs, or why he continues (if he does) using them. I just know that it is absolutely wrong to jump to conclusions and say "This guy is a pretty boy who partied too hard, got caught up in drugs with his douche buddies and parades around with his little skank girlfriend who probably does blow too". Of course nobody on here said this verbatim, but it's the general consensus when you look around at comments on the news articles. I think that's wrong.

post #387 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Also, to the general "he made a conscious decision" people ... do you know that for sure?  What's a more likely scenario for somebody's first cocaine usage:

He was playing Hungry Hungy Hippos with his neice while drinking chocolate milk and watching Frozen during a pajama party and just decided it would be a good time to try coke?

Or

He was out partying (read: drinkning) with friends, and possibly heavily, and a friend happened to have some and offered it to him?

Anybody else here ever been drunk before?  Anybody else made dumbass decisions while drunk?  Not necessarily to the level of cocaine, but the point being, it's entirely possible that his "decision" to start down that stupid path was made with anything but a "conscious" mind.

Yeah so this EXACT scenario happened to me in my 20's. Partying with friends and co workers, I was drunk as a skunk. My boss at the time pulled out a bag of coke and proceeded to do a couple lines. He offered me some I said no thank you my drug of choice is Jack Daniels. My goodness did DJ do a Sandtrap swing clinic or something????
post #388 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonTheSavage View Post


Yeah so this EXACT scenario happened to me in my 20's. Partying with friends and co workers, I was drunk as a skunk. My boss at the time pulled out a bag of coke and proceeded to do a couple lines. He offered me some I said no thank you my drug of choice is Jack Daniels. My goodness did DJ do a Sandtrap swing clinic or something????

My point isn't that we would all agree to do coke if we were offered some while drunk.  My point is that we've all probably done some things while drunk that if given the choice to re-do while sober, we'd likely make a different decision.

post #389 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

My point isn't that we would all agree to do coke if we were offered some while drunk.  My point is that we've all probably done some things while drunk that if given the choice to re-do while sober, we'd likely make a different decision.
Yeah but we're actually talking about DJ doing COKE. Sorry but you cant plead insanity becasue you were drunk or high. He's an adult why are we babying him is what I want to know?
post #390 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

You keep saying those things like they're mutually exclusive.  Why can't we have compassion for the guy and hope he can recover while at the same time believing that he needs to own and take responsibility for his actions?  Heck, that's basically exactly what I was saying to you way back when you said he made a mistake by not lying and telling people he had back problems again (or something) in his statement.  I said, no way, he needs to be truthful about this because that's the first step to recovery.

Nobody's suggesting that Dustin is a victim.
I agree with this entirely. I have compassion for him and truly hope he turns it around. However, I take issue with those who try to make excuses for his behavior. There are no excuses. He partied and did some knuckleheaded things. I haven't heard him try to downplay anything, seems as though he's working through it in a responsible way, at least from the point he got nabbed. If he continues down this road he'll gain a lot of respect from me as well as many others, I suspect.

I also don't appreciate those on the other extreme, lighting him up along with his gf, her father and mother and the dog with innuendo based purely on speculation.
post #391 of 455
Cocaine, crack, any of the variants is really bad stuff.

I almost lost two friends from OD. My friends and I needed to walk them back to life while hung over from Vodka. Then decided to take them to ER by cab. The nurses told us we saved their lives.

That was the last time I had anything to do with any illicit drugs. I even stopped hard liquor after that, except in a cocktail.

My friends stopped cold turkey, and their parents and friends worked together to accomplish this.

I really don't have a lot of sympathy for users for this reason.
post #392 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonTheSavage View Post


Yeah but we're actually talking about DJ doing COKE. Sorry but you cant plead insanity becasue you were drunk or high. He's an adult why are we babying him is what I want to know?

I'm not babying him.  I'm simply trying to offer a rebuttal to those who are saying "He made a conscious decision to do this, so f*ck him!"  Nothing more.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

Cocaine, crack, any of the variants is really bad stuff.

I almost lost two friends from OD. My friends and I needed to walk them back to life while hung over from Vodka. Then decided to take them to ER by cab. The nurses told us we saved their lives.

That was the last time I had anything to do with any illicit drugs. I even stopped hard liquor after that, except in a cocktail.

My friends stopped cold turkey, and their parents and friends worked together to accomplish this.

I really don't have a lot of sympathy for users for this reason.

That is an interesting conclusion to draw from that.  (Not necessarily wrong, just interesting)  Based on the story that preceded it, I was expecting the opposite.

post #393 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

I'm not babying him.  I'm simply trying to offer a rebuttal to those who are saying "He made a conscious decision to do this, so f*ck him!"  Nothing more.

That is an interesting conclusion to draw from that.  (Not necessarily wrong, just interesting)  Based on the story that preceded it, I was expecting the opposite.
Gotcha.......... I personally would never say F Him because he's a human being.

But playing on Tour is/Should be a privilige and if you're allowed to continue playing after failing 3 tests then why test in the first place? Seems to me the tour tried to shame VJ and are trying to shield DJ.
post #394 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

I'm not babying him.  I'm simply trying to offer a rebuttal to those who are saying "He made a conscious decision to do this, so f*ck him!"  Nothing more.

That is an interesting conclusion to draw from that.  (Not necessarily wrong, just interesting)  Based on the story that preceded it, I was expecting the opposite.

I do have a lot of sympathy for ex-users and do everything I can to help them stay ex-users.
post #395 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I've never been so drunk that I'd do coke or anything else stupid enough that it would ruin my life.  Point is we don't know, we're all speculating.  Some prefer to speculate to give DJ the benefit of the doubt, others believe that he needs to own and take responsibility for some if not all his actions.

 

I doubt anyone (except Shorty) wishes anything bad on DJ, it's really just a difference in opinion of where we believe personal responsibility begins and ends.

 

Actually, it is very easy, and compassionate, to do both.

post #396 of 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonTheSavage View Post


My goodness did DJ do a Sandtrap swing clinic or something????

 

I can't remember all the details but I do know it was a helluva night :banana:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

My point isn't that we would all agree to do coke if we were offered some while drunk.  My point is that we've all probably done some things while drunk that if given the choice to re-do while sober, we'd likely make a different decision.

 

I think being a young, pro golfer who had success early is going to face a lot of temptation. Companies are throwing money at you, you're filming TV commercials, everyone tells you how great you are. Players are treated like royalty out on tour. If you're not grounded it's easy to get a big ego and think you're indestructible, what harm is a little coke going to do? I still think Dustin is still 100% to blame, he put the stuff in his body (and now seems to be owning his problem) but I understand how things can get out of control.

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