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The Official (Not Official At All) Drugs & Alcohol Thread - Page 13

post #217 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe View Post
 

Incarceration doesn't work. well lets take the murderers, pedophiles, rapists, bank robbers, etc. and do what with them ? Sorry, but no difference they are law breakers too.

They're vastly different.  There isn't a decent human on earth that would ever suggest that murder, pedophilia, rape and bank robbery should be made legal.

 

Doing drugs are only a crime because the government is saying it is.  Those others are crimes against humanity.

post #218 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe View Post
 

Incarceration doesn't work. well lets take the murderers, pedophiles, rapists, bank robbers, etc. and do what with them ? Sorry, but no difference they are law breakers too.

 

Horrible argument. Drug addiction has absolutely zero to do with those crimes. 

 

Drug offenders are law breakers because our laws say they are. To put them in the same class as pedophiles & rapists is pretty repugnant. 

post #219 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfing dad View Post
 

They're vastly different.  There isn't a decent human on earth that would ever suggest that murder, pedophilia, rape and bank robbery should be made legal.

 

Doing drugs are only a crime because the government is saying it is.  Those others are crimes against humanity.

Please notice I put bank robber in the mix. That is not a crime against humanity. Not a horrible argument, all of the above are crimes because the laws of this country say they are. Remember there was a time when SLAVERY was legal. Doesn't mean it was a good idea. And that was definitely a crime against humanity. 

Anyone care to address the victimless post ?

post #220 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe View Post
 

 all of the above are crimes because the laws of this country say they are.

Absolutely not.  Murder, assault, rape, theft have been crimes since looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong before this country existed and they will continue to be loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong after this country dies.

post #221 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Absolutely not.  Murder, assault, rape, theft have been crimes since looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong before this country existed and they will continue to be loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong after this country dies.

Like I said, slavery was legal until about 1865. That was thousands of years. Things change.

post #222 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post
 

 

Horrible argument. Drug addiction has absolutely zero to do with those crimes. 

 

Drug offenders are law breakers because our laws say they are. To put them in the same class as pedophiles & rapists is pretty repugnant. 

Would rather be repugnant than naive. Yes someone that robs, kills, etc. to get drugs is no better that any of the above. 

post #223 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe View Post

Incarceration doesn't work. well lets take the murderers, pedophiles, rapists, bank robbers, etc. and do what with them ? Sorry, but no difference they are law breakers too.
I've seen false equivalencies before, but that takes the prize.
post #224 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe View Post
 

Would rather be repugnant than naive. Yes someone that robs, kills, etc. to get drugs is no better that any of the above. 

 

Seriously. Have you read my posts in this thread? They're anything but naive. 

 

Ah, but I see you've modified your argument. You dropped rapists & child molesters from your hit list and reduced it down to robbers & murderers who do so to get drugs

 

And that, I agree with you. If you rob or murder, whether it's drug-related or not, go directly to jail.

 

But that's not your point. You're trying for moral equivalency of drug use with rapists.

 

Now who's naive?

post #225 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post

Seriously. Have you read my posts in this thread? They're anything but naive. 

Ah, but I see you've modified your argument. You dropped rapists & child molesters from your hit list and reduced it down to robbers & murderers who do so to get drugs

And that, I agree with you. If you rob or murder, whether it's drug-related or not, go directly to jail.

But that's not your point. You're trying for moral equivalency of drug use with rapists.

Now who's naive?
My statement was to the incarceration doesn't work sentence. If it doesn't work for drug users why does it work for other criminals?
As far as modifying my stance. I learn fast by example. Lol
post #226 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe View Post


My statement was to the incarceration doesn't work sentence. If it doesn't work for drug users why does it work for other criminals?
As far as modifying my stance. I learn fast by example. Lol

 

Not from me. I think I've been quite consistent in this thread.

 

Look, if you want to make this a 'Is incarceration a crime deterrent?' thread, well, that's not the topic. 

 

The repeated point, which by now I think you're just choosing to ignore for the sake of arguing for argument's sake, is locking up drug offenders is a waste of resources....better used for, well, for example, murderers, rapists, child molesters. Nobody wants those types in society. You can't, and really don't want to, try to rehabilitate them. Lock 'em up. You kill someone you go away.

 

A drug user can be rehabilitated. And that's done through treatment, not jail.

 

Really, I think you're mixing the two just for the hell of it, cuz you are not making any kind of compelling argument.

post #227 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post

Not from me. I think I've been quite consistent in this thread.

Look, if you want to make this a 'Is incarceration a crime deterrent?' thread, well, that's not the topic. 

The repeated point, which by now I think you're just choosing to ignore for the sake of arguing for argument's sake, is locking up drug offenders is a waste of resources....better used for, well, for example, murderers, rapists, child molesters. Nobody wants those types in society. You can't, and really don't want to, try to rehabilitate them. Lock 'em up. You kill someone you go away.

A drug user can be rehabilitated. And that's done through treatment, not jail.

Really, I think you're mixing the two just for the hell of it, cuz you are not making any kind of compelling argument.
I'm sure am getting alot of extra read into what I say. That's the bad thing about Internet forums. I don't agree with 55 MPH speed limit
But that is the law. Do the crime do the time.
I think alot of you are picking and choosing what you wish to address and what you wont because you have no argument to back you up. I also think alot of the arguments that are for legalization are rediculous. Not many want to address the very dark side of drugs, that is as naive as it gets. I can see no good coming from drugs. That's all I need to back my stance.
post #228 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe View Post

My statement was to the incarceration doesn't work sentence. If it doesn't work for drug users why does it work for other criminals?
As far as modifying my stance. I learn fast by example. Lol

Who ever said that it does work for other criminals?  It works to keep them off the street for a few years and not committing more crimes WHILE they are still in prison, but I have no idea what it does beyond that.  A lot of people commit violent crimes, go to jail, then get out and commit more violent crimes.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe View Post

But that is the law. Do the crime do the time.

But when the discussion is about whether that law is worth looking into, then this argument makes no sense.

 

"So, do you think we should legalize drugs?"

"No."

"OK, how come?"

"Because they're illegal!  Duh!"

post #229 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

They're vastly different.  There isn't a decent human on earth that would ever suggest that murder, pedophilia, rape and bank robbery should be made legal.

 

Doing drugs are only a crime because the government is saying it is.  Those others are crimes against humanity.

Some would say the same is true of prostitution, it's legal in some parts of the world.

post #230 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusanothajoe View Post


I'm sure am getting alot of extra read into what I say. That's the bad thing about Internet forums. I don't agree with 55 MPH speed limit
But that is the law. Do the crime do the time.
I think alot of you are picking and choosing what you wish to address and what you wont because you have no argument to back you up. I also think alot of the arguments that are for legalization are rediculous. Not many want to address the very dark side of drugs, that is as naive as it gets. I can see no good coming from drugs. That's all I need to back my stance.

 

So speeders are in the same category as rapists now?

post #231 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Some would say the same is true of prostitution, it's legal in some parts of the world.

Right.  That's another that could be argued in many cases is a "victimless" crime.

post #232 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Right.  That's another that could be argued in many cases is a "victimless" crime.

I think the issue with drugs and prostitution is that the government feels the need to be our moral compass.  The political officials are afraid legalizing drugs and prostitution would be an endorsement to encourage the behavior.  They don't realize that no one really cares what they say or think.  If we did, there wouldn't be as many drug dealers and pimps here.

post #233 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post

So speeders are in the same category as rapists now?
Don't know about that, but drug users are in the same category as dumbasses
post #234 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I think the issue with drugs and prostitution is that the government feels the need to be our moral compass.  The political officials are afraid legalizing drugs and prostitution would be an endorsement to encourage the behavior.  They don't realize that no one really cares what they say or think.  If we did, there wouldn't be as many drug dealers and pimps here.

When I was 15, I was fortunate enough to go to Japan for an all-star baseball tournament (1989 for those counting).  The cities had vending machines right on the street with beer in them.  You can imagine how shocking something like that was to an American kid.  Based on our culture, you're thinking to yourself how come everybody isn't drunk all of the time???

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