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The Official (Not Official At All) Drugs & Alcohol Thread - Page 6

post #91 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post
 

 

First of all, let's make it clear that there is far more abuse in this country with legal drugs. Things like oxycontin and other painkillers are nothing but legal opiates that are abused far more than recreational drugs. That said, there is no reason why almost all recreational drugs should not be legalized and regulated. It would destroy the black market for the drugs, and stop the resulting violence. Plus I don't think it would create any more drug abuse than exists today, and it would be safer.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

I don't believe that oxycontin and other pain killers are abused more than other drugs like coke and such. I also don't agree that we should just legalize anything and everything. You can't say "it worked in that country so it'll work in ours" because Americans are a people of excess much more so than most other countries. I'd prefer that drugs weren't legalized, but I realize that if I'm in the minority then what I want won't matter.

 

Yeah, they are. Legal painkillers are destructively addictive and an awful lot of the people who end up on heroin, or other opiates, got their start on legal opiates and turned to the black market route when their prescriptions dried up. Legal opiates are a dangerous rabbit hole because they are so misunderstood, but nothing is misunderstood more than marijuana, which is ridiculously benign compared to alcohol.

post #92 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post
 

 

 

Yeah, they are. Legal painkillers are destructively addictive and an awful lot of the people who end up on heroin, or other opiates, got their start on legal opiates and turned to the black market route when their prescriptions dried up. Legal opiates are a dangerous rabbit hole because they are so misunderstood, but nothing is misunderstood more than marijuana, which is ridiculously benign compared to alcohol.

Phan is right, legal painkillers are highly addictive and lead abusers to cheaper options like heroin. The difference is there are legitimate medical reasons why someone should be on a heavy duty painkiller but none I can think of for snorting coke.

post #93 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

I don't believe that oxycontin and other pain killers are abused more than other drugs like coke and such.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post
 

Yeah, they are.

Did google search on "drug abuse in America" and the first return yielded this ... which shows this graph:

According to that story, prescription painkillers are abused at a rate much larger than any of the illegal drugs out there.

post #94 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

 

 

Did google search on "drug abuse in America" and the first return yielded this ... which shows this graph:

According to that story, prescription painkillers are abused at a rate much larger than any of the illegal drugs out there.

 

That makes sense to me as it is readily available at the request of the physician.. This alone should be enough to dissuade people from pushing for the legalization of crack, cocaine and heroin.. 

 

if a drug that you can get by a slip is the most abused in the country, what would we expect the results to be when Heroin/Crack/Cocaine are readily available at crack shops near you?  

 

The argument of legalizing all drugs is so silly, I don't think I want to entertain it anymore.. I just hope there isn't a large portion of society that thinks it is a good idea!

post #95 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post
 

 

Ok.. So, basically what you are saying is legalize everything correct..?  If I go off of that then.

 

I'm sorry, but Oxycontin is not a legal drug with the true sense of the word.. You can't just walk into a store and buy it can you?  So, it isn't really a good comparison regardless of how much of it is abused on a daily basis.  Unless you are also suggesting that it should be open for people to buy if they so please as well?

 

Even countries such as the Netherlands as far as I know don't have legal cocaine or heroine, but obviously you are suggesting that these get legalized along with crack and meth.  You are taking it a step further than the Netherlands and that is fine, this is the world you are willing to live in..

 

1.  Do you realize the ramification of what you are proposing?

2.  I would love to hear the argument of how it would destroy the black market?  How it would destroy or stop as a mater of fact the Cartel from enslaving labor girls to collect their harvest, to meet the crazy demand of the crack heads?

 

The Cartels would no longer exist because of the snowball effect of legalized drugs in this country. We are the consumers. If it is legal here, the countries where the drugs are produced can then decriminalize the manufacture (because the criminalization is done solely on our insistence and investment in enforcement). They can legally manufacture it, sell it, tax it. Then the only cartels that would exist would be the pharmaceutical companies. ;-)

 

BTW, I don't use recreational drugs or alcohol. I did in my youth but I grew up. I also found out that alcohol was far more destructive than any of the recreational drugs I tried. We appear to be getting by as a society with that as a legally used substance. Crack and meth are singularly destructive but, if people want to use them, go ahead. They will use them anyway, legal or not.

post #96 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

 

 

Did google search on "drug abuse in America" and the first return yielded this ... which shows this graph:

According to that story, prescription painkillers are abused at a rate much larger than any of the illegal drugs out there.

Here's the thing, I'm talking in total. All the illegal drug use together is more than that of prescription drug abuse. I wasn't very clear in what I was saying, for that I apologize. 

post #97 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post
 

 

The Cartels would no longer exist because of the snowball effect of legalized drugs in this country. We are the consumers. If it is legal here, the countries where the drugs are produced can then decriminalize the manufacture (which is done solely on our insistence and investment in enforcement). They can legally manufacture it, sell it, tax it. Then the only cartels that would exist would be the pharmaceutical companies. ;-)

 

BTW, I don't use recreational drugs or alcohol. I did in my youth but I grew up. I also found out that alcohol was far more destructive than any of the recreational drugs I tried. We appear to be getting by as a society with that as a legally used substance. Crack and meth are singularly destructive but, if people want to use them, go ahead. They will use them anyway, legal or not.

 

:-D

 

You have some very rosy plans there of other countries doing that which the US needs done.

 

Then again.. The US would need the Cartels because that would be the only way to get the product cheap, so they can then tax it and make a margin on it..

 

Anyway, I think we all know that legalizing all drugs is a crazy idea that we don't really need to entertain right?

post #98 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

Here's the thing, I'm talking in total. All the illegal drug use together is more than that of prescription drug abuse. I wasn't very clear in what I was saying, for that I apologize.

 

But the vast majority of that is marijuana which, I think you would agree, is not in the same realm as cocaine or heroin. OR prescription painkillers, which are highly addictive. And the minimal amount of people who use drugs like meth and crack are ridiculously small and always will be. Legalized drugs would not create an out-of-control drug culture in this country, unless you consider current use as out-of-control because a certain percentage of people will always use drugs.

post #99 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

Here's the thing, I'm talking in total. All the illegal drug use together is more than that of prescription drug abuse. I wasn't very clear in what I was saying, for that I apologize.

But that total includes marijuana.  That doesn't really count.

 

The abuse of presciption painkillers is more than 4 times higher than the next drug on the list, and still almost double of all of the other drugs combined.

post #100 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

But that total includes marijuana.  That doesn't really count.

 

The abuse of presciption painkillers is more than 4 times higher than the next drug on the list, and still almost double of all of the other drugs combined.

How in the hell does marijauna not count?

post #101 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post
 

 

:-D

 

You have some very rosy plans there of other countries doing that which the US needs done.

 

 

I think it is devastating what our war on drugs has done, not just here but around the world. A lot of these countries rely on our largesse so, yes, they are very willing to do what we want.

 

Quote:
Anyway, I think we all know that legalizing all drugs is a crazy idea that we don't really need to entertain right?

 

I don't think it is crazy, but I also don't think it will happen anytime soon. Not in any of our lifetimes anyway.

post #102 of 386

I don't think anyone would truly think that legalizing pot would lead to a slippery slope of legalizing hard drugs. If so, I think you're way off-base. Here's why:

 

It's freekin' POT. Know what a person who is high on pot does? Not a whole lot of anything. Eats a lot. Nods out. Laughs at Three Stooges shorts.

 

There's also the issue of whether it is truly addictive or not. That's debatable, but the fact this is even debatable encourages its legalization. 

 

Now, the hard stuff - cocaine, heroin, etc? No way should those be legalized. Totally different dynamic than pot. Highly addictive. Absolutely nothing in common with pot other than the illegality. But by decriminalizing pot, you have saves scads on money on the penal system. No longer would prison-building be a growing industry. Lives aren't ruined with a criminal record for carrying three joints on them.

 

I won't even get into the pot versus alcohol debate other to say that nobody rocked a blunt then shot their wife. We already have a drug which is legal (alcohol) that has far greater societal consequences than one that is illegal (pot). 

post #103 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

How in the hell does marijauna not count?

 

Because marijuana does not have the addictive properties that those other drugs possess, nor does it have the physically destructive properties that those other drugs possess, including alcohol. The only reason it is in the study is because it is illegal.

post #104 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post
 

 

Because marijuana does not have the addictive properties that those other drugs possess, nor does it have the physically destructive properties that those other drugs possess, including alcohol.

I can point you to basically every friend I have who can't quit smoking marijuana so you can keep your "not addicting" statement. Also how them starting smoking marijuana has led to them doing other drugs. Regardless it was a discussion about drug use, regardless of how you want to spin it marijuana is still a drug. Very few discussions bother me as much as those of drug use because it hits way too close to home. I should know better than to participate in these discussions. 

post #105 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post

I can point you to basically every friend I have who can't quit smoking marijuana so you can keep your "not addicting" statement. Also how them starting smoking marijuana has led to them doing other drugs. Regardless it was a discussion about drug use, regardless of how you want to spin it marijuana is still a drug. Very few discussions bother me as much as those of drug use because it hits way too close to home. I should know better than to participate in these discussions. 
*Enters discussion*. I have several friends who have quit pot on the spot. *Leaves discussion*
post #106 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJH999 View Post


*Enters discussion*. I have several friends who have quit pot on the spot. *Leaves discussion*

I guess that goes back to @zipazoid comment that each person has their own tolerance to addiction.  Most of the people I knew that smoked pot went on to try other, harder drugs but continued to smoke pot.  I've never tried any (except alcohol), so I cannot speak from personal experience.

post #107 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

I can point you to basically every friend I have who can't quit smoking marijuana so you can keep your "not addicting" statement. Also how them starting smoking marijuana has led to them doing other drugs. Regardless it was a discussion about drug use, regardless of how you want to spin it marijuana is still a drug. Very few discussions bother me as much as those of drug use because it hits way too close to home. I should know better than to participate in these discussions. 

Addiction to marijuana is like alcoholism. Marijuana and alcohol aren't chemically addiction but the right personality/risk factors can make it addicting. But that really can't be blamed on the substance itself.

post #108 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post
 

 

Because marijuana does not have the addictive properties that those other drugs possess, nor does it have the physically destructive properties that those other drugs possess, including alcohol. The only reason it is in the study is because it is illegal.

 

I have had friends that smoked pot and still do.. this will be a good side discussion of is it addictive or not.. Tell me, what is the addictive property in "sex addicts"?  or in "Shopoholics"?  or in I don't know... "shop lifting"?

 

Marijuana is addictive even without those properties that you talk about.. people want and need their THC period!!  They will go to extreme lengths to get that high, and then they will try Coke, X, shrooms, acid.. you name it, they will even sprinkle some crack on their pot to make it more potent!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

I can point you to basically every friend I have who can't quit smoking marijuana so you can keep your "not addicting" statement. Also how them starting smoking marijuana has led to them doing other drugs. Regardless it was a discussion about drug use, regardless of how you want to spin it marijuana is still a drug. Very few discussions bother me as much as those of drug use because it hits way too close to home. I should know better than to participate in these discussions. 

 

Yes, and it is not just you who knows people either.. By looking at the sheer number of people that use it, I would say that the ones that quit are the exception and not the rule!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJH999 View Post


*Enters discussion*. I have several friends who have quit pot on the spot. *Leaves discussion*


Oh come on.. come back to the discussion.. those friends are exceptions my friend!!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I guess that goes back to @zipazoid comment that each person has their own tolerance to addiction.  Most of the people I knew that smoked pot went on to try other, harder drugs but continued to smoke pot.  I've never tried any (except alcohol), so I cannot speak from personal experience.

 

Yup..  same exact experience!

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