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getting some back spin...

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

hey guys... I've been hitting my irons pretty well this year..... finally im consistently hitting GIR and getting pretty good check ups with my wedges.... Even though i can get my sand wedge to bounce once and stop I cannot get it to spin back.... usually i hit my SW a little low.... Do u think if i tried getting more height that would help it spin more??? Any thoughts or anyone struggle with this?? Thanks

post #2 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosman34 View Post
 

hey guys... I've been hitting my irons pretty well this year..... finally im consistently hitting GIR and getting pretty good check ups with my wedges.... Even though i can get my sand wedge to bounce once and stop I cannot get it to spin back.... usually i hit my SW a little low.... Do u think if i tried getting more height that would help it spin more??? Any thoughts or anyone struggle with this?? Thanks

If you can get more height you won't really need spin. The idea is to stop the ball so it holds the green. High trajectory can do that just as well as spin, better really because spin can bring you back off the front of the green which really is no better than rolling out over the back of the green. I've never had a wedge spin back any note worthy distance but I generally can hit my irons and wedges high enough that when they come down they come down steep, which means they'll hold the green.

 

 

This is from the other day, it didn't spin back, it hopped forward about a foot. I don't see how having the ball zip backwards would be of any real advantage over this high trajectory shot. 

post #3 of 19
Staying where it lands is easier to control than guessing how much it's going to spin back. Sometimes it's necessary and the best chance to get close. Most times it's not.

The gallery loves the spinners though. They'll cheer more for a ball that lands a foot from the pin and sucks back to 15 feet than a ball that lands a foot from the pin and stays there.

If you want to spin it more use more effective loft, more clubhead speed, and more negative angle of attack.
post #4 of 19

Hmm?  'Negative angle of attack'. I thought this was flipping but took a look and found this info. My speed too low for backspinning, i'm happy to putt.  Said that Lee Trevino was master of low ball wedge shots with high spinning.  

 

Found this info,

 

 https://nextgengolf.org/swing-tips/the-science-of-spin-angle-of-attack/

 

Many golfers incorrectly believe that they can generate more backspin by hitting down on the ball. However, TrackMan has shown us that hitting down on the ball does not necessarily impart more spin. Contrary to popular belief, the ball’s spin rate is primarily determined by spin loft, and club speed, while impact position and friction between the club and the ball also effect how the ball spins.

Generally, a club with more loft creates more spin. Spin Loft is the numerical difference between the club’s loft at impact and the angle of attack. When the angle is greater, the spin increases. Likewise, when the angle is lessened, the spin decreases.

post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosman34 View Post

hey guys... I've been hitting my irons pretty well this year..... finally im consistently hitting GIR and getting pretty good check ups with my wedges.... Even though i can get my sand wedge to bounce once and stop I cannot get it to spin back.... usually i hit my SW a little low.... Do u think if i tried getting more height that would help it spin more??? Any thoughts or anyone struggle with this?? Thanks

Why in the world would you want the ball to spin more? Specifically, why would you want it to spin back such that you can't judge where it's eventually going to stop?
post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post

Hmm?  'Negative angle of attack'. I thought this was flipping but took a look and found this info. My speed too low for backspinning, i'm happy to putt.  Said that Lee Trevino was master of low ball wedge shots with high spinning.  

Found this info,

 https://nextgengolf.org/swing-tips/the-science-of-spin-angle-of-attack/

Many golfers incorrectly believe that they can generate more backspin by hitting down on the ball. However, TrackMan has shown us that hitting down on the ball does not necessarily impart more spin. Contrary to popular belief, the ball’s spin rate is primarily determined by spin loft, and club speed, while impact position and friction between the club and the ball also effect how the ball spins.



Generally, a club with more loft creates more spin. Spin Loft is the numerical difference between the club’s loft at impact and the angle of attack. When the angle is greater, the spin increases. Likewise, when the angle is lessened, the spin decreases.



Wouldn't hitting down on the ball give you a more negative AoA -> more difference between dynamics loft and AoA -> higher spin loft? Or am I brainfarting?
post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post

Wouldn't hitting down on the ball give you a more negative AoA -> more difference between dynamics loft and AoA -> higher spin loft? Or am I brainfarting?

 

It doesn't "guarantee" more spin because to hit down 5° more you might lean the shaft 5° more forward and thus have 5° less delivered loft.

 

So the same spin loft.

post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

It doesn't "guarantee" more spin because to hit down 5° more you might lean the shaft 5° more forward and thus have 5° less delivered loft.

So the same spin loft.

Ah, right.
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

It doesn't "guarantee" more spin because to hit down 5° more you might lean the shaft 5° more forward and thus have 5° less delivered loft.

 

So the same spin loft.

 



If you lean the shaft forward and use less loft I agree. If you handed me a wedge and told me to put as much spin on the ball as I possibly could I would open my stance, open the face, swing faster, and hit down more than my normal sweeping strike.

I agree that the AOA is last on the list.

By the same token if I had to put as little spin as possible on the ball I would do just the opposite of all of those.
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post

If you lean the shaft forward and use less loft I agree. If you handed me a wedge and told me to put as much spin on the ball as I possibly could I would open my stance, open the face, swing faster, and hit down more than my normal sweeping strike.

I agree that the AOA is last on the list.

By the same token if I had to put as little spin as possible on the ball I would do just the opposite of all of those.

 

It's not last on the list. It's pretty high on the list. The main things on the list would be:

  • Quality of contact.
  • Clubhead speed
  • Spin loft
    • delivered loft
    • AoA

 

That's about it.

 

Furthermore, at about 45° spin loft, spin is maximized. You can have more spin at 40° and 50°, depending on some small technique things, but laying your club open and getting 60° spin loft is probably not going to generate more spin. It will generate more height, and the landing angle will be steeper, but it will be unlikely to generate more spin.

post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

If you can get more height you won't really need spin. The idea is to stop the ball so it holds the green. High trajectory can do that just as well as spin, better really because spin can bring you back off the front of the green which really is no better than rolling out over the back of the green. I've never had a wedge spin back any note worthy distance but I generally can hit my irons and wedges high enough that when they come down they come down steep, which means they'll hold the green.
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There are times when you want backspin. When the pin is tucked behind water or a bunker, it is better to hit behind the pin and back it up to the hole. There is one hole on my course where they seem to always tuck the pin behind a bunker. It's also cool to hit the ball into a steep incline at the back of a green and watch it come back. I don't spin it enough to worry about backing it off a green.

This video breaks it down pretty well. Takes practice.
post #12 of 19
Just be careful on greens sloped back to front if you want a lot of spin. I used to hit lower wedge shots that spun quite a bit (before some swing changes) and I'd spin them back off the front so many times at a certain course with severe back to front slopes. It would land in the middle of the green and end up off the front.

I much prefer my current high trajectory with mediocre spinrates. It goes up and lands like a wet dish towel. I suppose I'm less likely to hole the ball that way (less roll to get lucky) but it means I know that if I land it on the green I'll be putting at least.

Plus, who doesn't like watching a ball fall from high in the sky to land next to the hole?
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by vangator View Post

 It's also cool to hit the ball into a steep incline at the back of a green and watch it come back.

This is true. I would love to suck the ball back 15 feet as it looks awesome and it is a great trick to show your mates.

 

It is also a shot that pros play that I cant play, so I want it more.

 

BUT........

 

I am very happy that I can usually stop my ball almost dead on approach, it generally plugs pretty well in the green. For me this is a much more reliable shot to play and why I hit a soft feel ball.

post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by vangator View Post

There are times when you want backspin. When the pin is tucked behind water or a bunker, it is better to hit behind the pin and back it up to the hole.
What happens if you hit it too close to the flag and spin it off the green, into the hazard? Better to hit the ball at the center of the green and stick it there.
post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

What happens if you hit it too close to the flag and spin it off the green, into the hazard? Better to hit the ball at the center of the green and stick it there.

You're giving me more credit than I deserve. a1_smile.gif

My stock shot hits and checks within a few feet but usually forward. But if a pin is a couple of paces over a bunker, Why try to just clear the bunker or settle for the middle of the green when can fly over the pin with little risk and have it spin back for a makeable putt? Not that I make them anyway. a4_sad.gif
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post

If you lean the shaft forward and use less loft I agree. If you handed me a wedge and told me to put as much spin on the ball as I possibly could I would open my stance, open the face, swing faster, and hit down more than my normal sweeping strike.

I agree that the AOA is last on the list.

By the same token if I had to put as little spin as possible on the ball I would do just the opposite of all of those.

 

It's not last on the list. It's pretty high on the list. The main things on the list would be:

  • Quality of contact.
  • Clubhead speed
  • Spin loft
    • delivered loft
    • AoA

 

That's about it.

 

Furthermore, at about 45° spin loft, spin is maximized. You can have more spin at 40° and 50°, depending on some small technique things, but laying your club open and getting 60° spin loft is probably not going to generate more spin. It will generate more height, and the landing angle will be steeper, but it will be unlikely to generate more spin.

Lol, not to be "that ****ing guy" but isn't it last on the list you just posted? :-P 

post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

Lol, not to be "that ****ing guy" but isn't it last on the list you just posted? :-P 

 

I said the main things on the list would be x, y, and z (in an unordered list no less :D), which means there are more things that aren't "main" things on the list.

 

AoA is a component of spin loft. I could have flipped the order of those things, and put spin loft first, and it would be the first thing, but the (again, unordered) list would have been the same.

post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

I said the main things on the list would be x, y, and z (in an unordered list no less :D), which means there are more things that aren't "main" things on the list.

 

AoA is a component of spin loft. I could have flipped the order of those things, and put spin loft first, and it would be the first thing, but the (again, unordered) list would have been the same.


Not that it matters but when I said "last on the list" I was referring to the 3 things I listed behind effective loft (which you call delivered loft) and speed. You added quality of contact which I assumed was a given for any golf shot.

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