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Sliced a ball into an expensive window. Did I do the right thing? - Page 5

post #73 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlh1508 View Post
 

Lets try this I build a house next to a dog park

 

One day a man is playing fetch with his dog at the dog park. His throw of the ball goes a little wild, flys into my property, hits the window of my house and breaks it.

 

Who is responsible?

That all depends.  Did the dog poop in your house?

post #74 of 261

wow..it amazes me the amount of people who say it's the owners fault for having a house on the course, that is the dumbest thing I've heard, but it does take all kinds I guess. 

 

It's not the owners fault that some guy hits a errant tee shot and breaks his window, as someone stated above, pages ago, maybe the OP shouldn't have been playing on a course where houses are lined in the fairways....it's one thing to hit the house, a shed or just go into a backyard, but when you know that you heard a window break from YOUR TEE SHOT, (not a ball falling from the sky) MAN the freak up and grow some and do the right thing, go tell them, or write a note and place it on their door.

 

 But my guess is this won't happen...shameful imho

post #75 of 261
That was lame, you broke the window you should've at least left a note. Who knows the guy may have deep pockets and just paid for it but you atleast would've felt better leaving the note. Like the poster above me said MAN UP and do the right thing. f5_nono.gif
post #76 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

Karma is a real bitch, and she has a loooooong memory!   ;-)

nothing worse than a bitch with a good memory....

...

...

 

wrong thread?

post #77 of 261

The three courses I play most are all surrounded by houses. I've never hit a house. From edge to edge on the holes where homes are close it must be 150 yards wide or more. The fairways are wide and beyond that is rough then native areas. I've seen guys hit wild slices that end up in the native grass but rarely. When a house is so close the possibility is high it's in the path of a errant shot there are nets. I've seen nets higher than the roof spanning side to side. You would pretty much have to aim at a house to hit it.

post #78 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undr Par View Post
 

wow..it amazes me the amount of people who say it's the owners fault for having a house on the course, that is the dumbest thing I've heard, but it does take all kinds I guess. 

 

It's not the owners fault that some guy hits a errant tee shot and breaks his window, as someone stated above, pages ago, maybe the OP shouldn't have been playing on a course where houses are lined in the fairways....it's one thing to hit the house, a shed or just go into a backyard, but when you know that you heard a window break from YOUR TEE SHOT, (not a ball falling from the sky) MAN the freak up and grow some and do the right thing, go tell them, or write a note and place it on their door.

 

 But my guess is this won't happen...shameful imho

My problem with saying the golfer shouldn't even be on that course is that it's just wrong. What if the golfer doesn't have any courses nearby or within his price range that aren't lined with houses? Should we then just tell him, "Sucks to be you, you can't golf."?

 

There's a good article on the liability of golfers you can find here: http://www.cmaa.org/PcsTemplate.aspx?id=37197

A quote from it states,

 

Quote:
In reviewing the circumstance, the court noted "persons living in organized communities must suffer some damage, and annoyance and inconvenience from each other. If one lives in the city, he must expect to suffer the dirt, smoke, noise some odors, and confusion incident to city life. So, too, one who deliberately decides to reside in the suburbs on very desirable lots and adjoining golf clubs and thus receive the social benefits and other not inconsiderable advantages of country club surroundings must accept the annoyances." Consistent with the above, other courts have found that those property owners living adjacent to a golf course should be viewed much like a spectator at a sporting event. From that vantage point the assumption of risk, as applied to spectators at sporting events, also applies to those with homes adjacent to an existing golf course. While actually not a spectator of golf being played, the adjacent property owner who moves into a home adjacent to an existing golf course chooses, much like a spectator does, to participate in the benefits of the golf course’s pastoral setting and accepts the inherent dangers of golf. 

 

Complaining about a ball being sliced into your window is like someone who lives in New York City complaining every time a car might splash dirty water from the street onto their sidewalk/lawn/building etc. It's something that happens and is an expected occurrence on the golf course or in a busy city. The golf ball hitting your window can even be mitigated by installing netting, and I bet you could even get a discount on homeowner's insurance if you did install netting and talked to your insurance agent. Heck, I know some people who live on golf courses where their insurance paid for the netting entirely.

 

I still think that leaving a note would have been appropriate, but there is no reason that the golfer should have to pay three times (stroke, distance, and cash) for a bad shot that will happen from time to time.

post #79 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
 

My problem with saying the golfer shouldn't even be on that course is that it's just wrong. What if the golfer doesn't have any courses nearby or within his price range that aren't lined with houses? Should we then just tell him, "Sucks to be you, you can't golf."?

 

There's a good article on the liability of golfers you can find here: http://www.cmaa.org/PcsTemplate.aspx?id=37197

A quote from it states,

 

 

Complaining about a ball being sliced into your window is like someone who lives in New York City complaining every time a car might splash dirty water from the street onto their sidewalk/lawn/building etc. It's something that happens and is an expected occurrence on the golf course or in a busy city. The golf ball hitting your window can even be mitigated by installing netting, and I bet you could even get a discount on homeowner's insurance if you did install netting and talked to your insurance agent. Heck, I know some people who live on golf courses where their insurance paid for the netting entirely.

 

I still think that leaving a note would have been appropriate, but there is no reason that the golfer should have to pay three times (stroke, distance, and cash) for a bad shot that will happen from time to time.

 

Sorry, I don't care what "some article" says. You break it, you buy it. 

 

Comparing it to dirty water splashing onto a sidewalk is almost unfathomable...

post #80 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
 

My problem with saying the golfer shouldn't even be on that course is that it's just wrong. What if the golfer doesn't have any courses nearby or within his price range that aren't lined with houses? Should we then just tell him, "Sucks to be you, you can't golf."?

 

There's a good article on the liability of golfers you can find here: http://www.cmaa.org/PcsTemplate.aspx?id=37197

A quote from it states,

 

 

Complaining about a ball being sliced into your window is like someone who lives in New York City complaining every time a car might splash dirty water from the street onto their sidewalk/lawn/building etc. It's something that happens and is an expected occurrence on the golf course or in a busy city. The golf ball hitting your window can even be mitigated by installing netting, and I bet you could even get a discount on homeowner's insurance if you did install netting and talked to your insurance agent. Heck, I know some people who live on golf courses where their insurance paid for the netting entirely.

 

I still think that leaving a note would have been appropriate, but there is no reason that the golfer should have to pay three times (stroke, distance, and cash) for a bad shot that will happen from time to time.

 

If I drive my car into my neighbor's mailbox, should I refuse to pay for the damage simply because he chose to live on a street?

 

But, none of this has anything to do with the law.  It has everything to do with accepting personal responsibility for your actions and transgressions.  I was taught to do so by my parents.  I teach my daughter the same.  It's simply part of who we are.

post #81 of 261

I think those saying don't play courses surrounded by houses aren't really commenting about ability as much as you really have to go out of your way to hit a ball that far off-line. It was probably more than a bad shot. He was probably aligned funny try to fight a miss or something. He may not even realized it.

 

For example the one time I came close to hitting into a yard this year I pretty much aimed right at the house, was try to play a huge slice around a massive cottonwood off a slice lie after missing the fairway and rolling down into a low area. Unfortunately the ball flew dead straight and it was a 6 iron so plenty of oomph on it to make it from one side of the hole to the other in a slight diagonal line. It hit a tree or it would have flown on to the patio where the people were out having a bbq.

 

I play tight holes conservatively, usually, whether it's homes or trees. Less about respecting personal property than I don't want to get into trouble. My home course has a 420 yard par 4 for the first hole. Homes on both sides with bunkers about 270 out and the fairway narrows between them. It's just not a driver hole. I suppose it is for those that expect to carry it over the traps but if you don't and you miss in either direction you're hosed. IMO some of this is related to guys playing too far back and the pressure that comes from having to hit a good drive on longer holes. Move up to where you can manage your miss.

post #82 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

If I drive my car into my neighbor's mailbox, should I refuse to pay for the damage simply because he chose to live on a street?

 

But, none of this has anything to do with the law.  It has everything to do with accepting personal responsibility for your actions and transgressions.  I was taught to do so by my parents.  I teach my daughter the same.  It's simply part of who we are.

 

I cannot understand people's arguments contrary to this idea.  Well, actually I can.  It's the argument that frees us from personal responsibility:  if I hurt you, it's your fault for being there to be hurt.

 

Maybe I'm just getting depressed at the length of this thread.

 

post #83 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

I think those saying don't play courses surrounded by houses aren't really commenting about ability as much as you really have to go out of your way to hit a ball that far off-line. It was probably more than a bad shot. He was probably aligned funny try to fight a miss or something. He may not even realized it.

 

For example the one time I came close to hitting into a yard this year I pretty much aimed right at the house, was try to play a huge slice around a massive cottonwood off a slice lie after missing the fairway and rolling down into a low area. Unfortunately the ball flew dead straight and it was a 6 iron so plenty of oomph on it to make it from one side of the hole to the other in a slight diagonal line. It hit a tree or it would have flown on to the patio where the people were out having a bbq.

 

I play tight holes conservatively, usually, whether it's homes or trees. Less about respecting personal property than I don't want to get into trouble. My home course has a 420 yard par 4 for the first hole. Homes on both sides with bunkers about 270 out and the fairway narrows between them. It's just not a driver hole. I suppose it is for those that expect to carry it over the traps but if you don't and you miss in either direction you're hosed. IMO some of this is related to guys playing too far back and the pressure that comes from having to hit a good drive on longer holes. Move up to where you can manage your miss.

But you also have to consider that your perspective is only based on the courses you play.  Take my brother's CC, for example, that I've posted about in here. http://thesandtrap.com/t/74900/how-would-you-play-it-9th-at-belmont-cc-fresno-ca/0_30

 

It's been established in that thread that the correct play is probably a driver.  Aim at the bunker and hit a cut.  If I pulled that shot just a hair and it didn't cut, I'm able to reach the street on the fly.  It would be very easy to one or two hop one of those into somebody's front window.  If you aimed down the left edge of the fairway, you wouldn't even need to pull it to reach a house.  Hit it dead straight and its 250 carry to the road.  And no nets:

 

 

You don't always have to go very far out of your way to hit a house on some courses.  While it's certainly cowardly and bad form to run away, I'd have to say that somebody buying those houses would be silly not to expect occasional pummelings.

post #84 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by krupa View Post
 

 

I cannot understand people's arguments contrary to this idea.  Well, actually I can.  It's the argument that frees us from personal responsibility:  if I hurt you, it's your fault for being there to be hurt.

 

Maybe I'm just getting depressed at the length of this thread.

 

I agree, but this goes both ways, does it not?  You should certainly accept personal reponsibility for hitting a house, but isn't it reasonable to also expect the homeeowner to assume some responsibility for choosing that house?  "Hey, how the heck was I supposed to know that golf balls would end up in my back yard that is 30 yards away from a golf course??!!??  That is inexplicable!!!!"

 

It would certainly be something I would consider when I was shopping for a house near a golf course.

post #85 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

But you also have to consider that your perspective is only based on the courses you play.  Take my brother's CC, for example, that I've posted about in here. http://thesandtrap.com/t/74900/how-would-you-play-it-9th-at-belmont-cc-fresno-ca/0_30

 

It's been established in that thread that the correct play is probably a driver. 

 

 

In that thread I said I'd hit 7w x2 :-P. I know popular belief here is always hit it as far as you can, and I am in that group. But my modified version is hit it as far as I can without getting in trouble if there is more risk than it's worth. I hit more 3w and 5w from the tee than most.

post #86 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

In that thread I said I'd hit 7w x2 :-P. I know popular belief here is always hit it as far as you can, and I am in that group. But my modified version is hit it as far as I can without getting in trouble if there is more risk than it's worth. I hit more 3w and 5w from the tee than most.

LOL ... yeah I only hit driver in the practice round. ;)  In the "real" rounds I hit 3 wood and 4 iron.  But it was my score that worried me ... not anybody's window. :-P

 

Main point though is that there are courses out there where it would not take much at all to hit a house.  It doesn't have to be a horrible shot.  The arguments that if you're not good enough to keep it in bounds then you should play different courses are absurd.

post #87 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

LOL ... yeah I only hit driver in the practice round. ;)  In the "real" rounds I hit 3 wood and 4 iron.  But it was my score that worried me ... not anybody's window. :-P

 

Main point though is that there are courses out there where it would not take much at all to hit a house.  It doesn't have to be a horrible shot.  The arguments that if you're not good enough to keep it in bounds then you should play different courses are absurd.

But like you mentioned earlier could be a perception thing. Here you really really have to hit something funny to get close to houses. Usually they are only close to the course near tee boxes. The areas where a far off-line slice or hook would land the holes get pretty wide. The holes flare out in the middle and usually have something to prevent balls getting close, trees, mounds, tall native grass to stop a hard bounce. Most are shaped away from the homes, houses on the right are dogleg left. There are a few exceptions and I don't play those courses, not because I don't want to hit a house but because they suck. One is situated amongst apartments and townhomes. It's like playing golf in a canyon.

 

This actually was a news story here last season. One homeowner was suing the course and everyone else involved, including the developer I think. His house was stucco and one side of it was dozens holes. He stopped fixing it because it happened pretty much every day. Not sure why he didn't have a net up.

post #88 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

You didn't do the right thing. My parents live on a private course. A couple of times I've seen my step-dad bean someone's house. Most in the path of errant balls have massive nets protecting them. Anyway he hit one of the million plus dollar houses, wasn't even a window just the side of it, and it made a loud bang. He rolls up gets out of his cart and heads to their front door to apologize. Their they have signs all over saying any damage is the responsibility of the golfer.

 

My take on it is if you can't afford to replace the windows then you shouldn't be playing on courses like that. It's not the homeowners fault you can't control your drives. There are plenty of open courses in every town.

 

I did something similar (no damage as it turned out), and they told me it was covered by their insurance. People living on golf courses should expect some damage from the balls. A couple decades ago, I was looking at moving to a place near Mission Viejo, and was in escrow when the window of our prospective house was broken by an errant shot. The Broker just said this is just a part of life living on a course. I withdrew from escrow (as the damaged window proved to be a way out of the contract at the time), and purchased a house near where I am now.

 

The window and any other damage was covered by the course insurance, but it was an inconvenience.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Lee View Post
 

Today I played well, relative to my handicap of 21, I shot 92 (with five three putts).  I'd love to be happy, but I sliced badly on hole number five  (on which course specifically is irrelevant) and I heard a smashing unlike anything I've ever heard before. It was a large expensive window on at least a five million dollar home.

 

The people who live in such houses, so they say, cannot obtain insurance against golf ball damages because such a thing it too expensive.

 

I did not know what to do.  Leave a message saying sorry about the window, but that will teach ya to build on a golf course idiot?  So I just ran away like a ten year old playing knock a door ginger.

 

 

What should I do?  Confess to a wealthy man that I'm poor and can't afford to pay for the damages?

Inform him he can't sue poor people?  Please help, my conscience is killing me.

 

 

They could track it down, so it is best to be open about it. Call them and make sure that they have insurance, decide if you want to fuss up to it and do it.

 

Or next time you go to the course, just let them know.

post #89 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

I was looking at moving to a place near Mission Viejo, ...  I withdrew from escrow (as the damaged window proved to be a way out of the contract at the time), and purchased a house near where I am now.

Opportunity cost, my friend.  What you gained by not having to fix the window all of the time you lost by not being able to golf with me every week.:-P

 

Why did that window cause you to move so far away??  That'd be like somebody getting ready to buy a house in Brooklyn, but then realizing it had roaches, so they choose one in Philadelphia instead. ;-)

post #90 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

I agree, but this goes both ways, does it not?  You should certainly accept personal reponsibility for hitting a house, but isn't it reasonable to also expect the homeeowner to assume some responsibility for choosing that house?  "Hey, how the heck was I supposed to know that golf balls would end up in my back yard that is 30 yards away from a golf course??!!??  That is inexplicable!!!!"

 

It would certainly be something I would consider when I was shopping for a house near a golf course.

 

By choosing that house, the homeowner has accepted the risk that an errant ball will come through his window.  He also accepts the risk that the golfer will run away and he will have to replace the window on his own dime.

 

But, I think that it is incorrect to say that he is somehow "responsible".

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