Does a fade have to go shorter than a draw?

**SoundandFury** · August 9, 2014

Started working on hitting cuts when I need them, for both tee shots and pins that call for them, and to scrub a little distance off when I'm between clubs. I've always heard that fades don't travel as far as draws, however I hit a cut 3w today that I swear traveled as far if not further than some of the draws I've hit on that particular hole. That being said, I also hit a cut 9i that came up about 8 yards shorter than my stock draw usually does on the same par 3.

Any thoughts?

**vangator** · August 9, 2014

All things being equal, they typically will. If a fairway slopes down hill left to right, a fade may roll more than the draw since the fade is going with the slope and the draw would be going against the slope. But there are no absolutes.

**saevel25** · August 9, 2014

Comparing a push draw to a pull fade, the pull fade should go farther because the club has less effective loft due to the clubface being closed.

Too many variables to say if one has a distance advantage over another.

**David in FL** · August 9, 2014

Absolutely not. They result from exactly the same swing dynamics, simply mirror images of each other. The reason that most people believe otherwise is that the "fade" that they're generally exposed to is a weak slice caused by a much greater delta between club face and swing path than what they generally see from what are usually better players hitting stronger, slighter draws. The laws of ball flight don't care whether the ball is going right or left....

**SoundandFury** · August 9, 2014

This makes sense to me. The fade I play now is waaaaay different than the one I (unintentionally) hit when I was a 25+. Ball starts 5 yards left of the target and drops to right. Exact opposite of a well hit draw. Last thing I want is the ball swooping 20 yds across the sky.

**Aguirre** · August 9, 2014

David is right. Another thing that often contributes to the difference in distance (particular for myself) is that when I hook the ball, my club head is more closed than a straight shot, or a slight fade. So I've delofted the club. An example from the club I play most often:

Short Par 3, only 100 yards, Pin was in middle back both the last two rounds

Round 1--Hit SW, drew it and hooked it, ball flight was lower, spin was less, one bounce over back right of green

Round 2--Hit SW, blocked it just a touch, cut it a touch, ball was very high (club face too open, as opposed to too closed), ball landed front left off green.

Made par both times, though.

**MS256** · August 9, 2014

My longest drives used to always be draws. Now my longest drives are from relatively straight (as far as the eye can judge it) to a very slight fade. I used to even get pretty decent distance when a draw crossed over into what I would call a hook. Seems like anymore when I hit one of those it's going nowhere. Almost a blessing in disguise though because often my hooks now don't go far enough to get in trouble (but that doesn't stop me from hating them just the same). ;-) My main nemisis since the first day I ever picked up a golf club was the hook. Never was a slicer.

**SoundandFury** · August 9, 2014

This makes sense to me. The fade I play now is waaaaay different than[quote name="MS256" url="/t/76435/does-a-fade-have-to-go-shorter-than-a-draw#post_1037303"]My longest drives used to always be draws. Now my longest drives are from relatively straight (as far as the eye can judge it) to a very slight fade. I used to even get pretty decent distance when a draw crossed over into what I would call a hook. Seems like anymore when I hit one of those it's going nowhere. Almost a blessing in disguise though because often my hooks now don't go far enough to get in trouble (but that doesn't stop me from hating them just the same). ;-) My main nemisis since the first day I ever picked up a golf club was the hook. Never was a slicer.[/quote] Lucky man (and probably 1 in 100). I started off slicing. As I got better my miss became a hook, which no question gets me in more trouble than any slice ever did. However, I hated the slice so bad that to this day nothing pisses me off more than seeing a ball go right, even though it's always a block now, not a slice. Still ruins a round.

**golfbarefoot** · August 9, 2014

These answers are cracking me up.

Simply put, yes a fade is typically shorter than a draw.

However your phrase "have to" throws everything off and is soliciting the funky comments...nothing is absolute...

but think about this, are you asking for just carry distance? or run out distance too? If the conditions are soft, a high fade with driver may go long...

but on a firm and fast day a draw will run out much longer typically..

**Aguirre** · August 10, 2014

However your phrase "have to" throws everything off and is soliciting the funky comments...nothing is absolute...

True.

**Zeph** · August 10, 2014

A fade is a ball that curves to the right, a draw is a ball that curves to the left. Without more information, one can't say a whole lot. You can hit a low fade and a high draw. There is no general rule that applies.

**MS256** · August 10, 2014

Lucky man (and probably 1 in 100). I started off slicing. As I got better my miss became a hook, which no question gets me in more trouble than any slice ever did. However, I hated the slice so bad that to this day nothing pisses me off more than seeing a ball go right, even though it's always a block now, not a slice. Still ruins a round.

Hmmm. No I wouldn't say lucky. Cursed comes to mind first.

I hate hooks with a passion, and I still hit way too many of them.

You can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen.

***iacas*** · August 10, 2014

These answers are cracking me up.

Simply put, yes a fade is typically shorter than a draw.

However your phrase "have to" throws everything off and is soliciting the funky comments...nothing is absolute...

but think about this, are you asking for just carry distance? or run out distance too? If the conditions are soft, a high fade with driver may go long...

but on a firm and fast day a draw will run out much longer typically..

Unfortunately this is the type of answer that's common in these kinds of discussions.

Draws tend to go farther because people tend to hit them with less loft. But that's nowhere near a guarantee.

Consider the clubface to be a flat object with a given amount of loft. Does it really matter - does the ball even care - whether the clubface is moving 3° to the left or 3° to the right during impact if the clubhead speed, centeredness of strike, and loft are the same?

No. They'd go the exact same distance.

Another reason fades tend to go shorter: people are already pulling their elbows apart in swinging left. In swinging out to the right a bit, they extend their arms, generating a bit more clubhead speed.

Lots of "tends to…" but no guarantees.

**SoundandFury** · August 10, 2014

Unfortunately this is the typo of answer that's common in these kinds of discussions.

Draws tend to go farther because people tend to hit them with less loft. But that's nowhere near a guarantee.

Consider the clubface to be a flat object with a given amount of loft. Does it really matter - does the ball even care - whether the clubface is moving 3° to the left or 3° to the right during impact if the clubhead speed, centeredness of strike, and loft are the same?

No. They'd go the exact same distance.

Another reason fades tend to go shorter: people are already pulling their elbows apart in swinging left. In swinging out to the right a bit, they extend their arms, generating a bit more clubhead speed.

Lots of "tends to…" but no guarantees.

Thanks Erik. Regarding the elbows coming apart, my guess is that that's a flaw in the swing, not something naturally happens when swinging a bit out to in. The main reason I posted this question is because I noticed on well struck fades I wasn't loosing distance. After trial and error on the range, I've found that best fades I can hit are the ones where I pretty much make the exact same swing I do when I hit a draw; only differences are 1) I line up left of the target, and 2) I hold off my release. I still try to get full extension through the swing. The ones that end up starting on a line right of the one I intended, and curving too far right of the target, are the ones where I don't trust the path and end up pulling my arms in and in essence bailing on the swing. Those are shorter, no question.

Gary Page · August 10, 2014

Typically a 'fade' would be shorter than a draw, as it will land softer and roll less. However I know for certain that a power fade could go as far a draw. If you want to hit a big slider with a fade shape then you can seriously bomb it out there.

also depending on the lie of the hole fairway a fade may be the correct shot for the ball to go further.

**SoundandFury** · August 11, 2014

What's the difference between a fade a power fade. Don't you want to hit all fades powerfully...

**Pretzel** · August 11, 2014

What's the difference between a fade a power fade. Don't you want to hit all fades powerfully...

A "power fade" is a well-aimed slice that ends up in the fairway.

**vangator** · August 11, 2014

A high arching fade (cut) to a protected pin is a beautiful thing. For me to produce a fade, I have to "hold off" my swing at the end whereas for a draw, I ripping through the follow through. Haven't done any swing monitoring, but I imagine the swing speed for the fade is less. If you naturally fade, this may not be the case. Then there are always those quacking duck hooks that end up 2 fairways over. :-D

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Does a fade have to go shorter than a draw?

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