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Did anybody notice Tiger start hitting fairways

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 

When he was hurting and couldn't swing out of his shoes with his driver?  I heard somebody say that he hits everything straight but his driver and that is only because he is trying to keep pace with the young guys getting it out there 300+. I've heard several people say if he stopped swinging so damned hard all the time he could control his driver and Tiger SHOULD KNOW BETTER but his pride won't let him gear down.

 

Opinions?

post #2 of 12

He played one 9-hols stretch under par and it was the back 9 on Friday when his back was hurting.  Probably an anomaly, but Tiger still needs to hit it long.  Rory hit an 8 iron into #16 when others were hitting 4 and 5 irons.  That is what Tiger used to do,

post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriskzoo View Post
 

He played one 9-hols stretch under par and it was the back 9 on Friday when his back was hurting.  Probably an anomaly, but Tiger still needs to hit it long.  Rory hit an 8 iron into #16 when others were hitting 4 and 5 irons.  That is what Tiger used to do,

That's true but let me ask a question.  What happens when you can't hit it as long as you used to? Do you just quit? Do you keep swinging out of your shoes and missing 40-50 yards left or right?  Or do you gear down and start hitting some fairways and just take a longer approach shot into the green?  I don't know the answer but slicing right or pull hooking left can't be the answer.  I know with the current long hitters if you don't get it out there you are at a severe disadvantage but hell if you can't hit a fairway you don't even have a chance.

post #4 of 12

I completely agree. Watching Mcilroy swinging within himself, albeit a powerful swing, and seeing his success led me to the same conclusion. Tiger is certainly strong enough but swinging out of his shoes on every shot is absurd and directly the cause of his back problems.  Even taking one more club, save for the driver of course, and swinging a bit easier would help him tremendously. His driver rips just give me an image of the ball going anywhere but where he's aiming and a pain in my back!  If he played every shot like a 100 yd. wedge, I think he'd be dynamite again. But, you're right - ego is his driver, not the Nike in his hands. 

post #5 of 12

Yeah, I also noticed that once he was out of it at Valhalla--after the 7th hole (when making the cut became, basically, impossible)--that he played the last 11 holes of the round in one under.  I'm assuming that's because he dialed it back a little bit.  The guy has a back problem, obviously, but he's also got a problem between his ears.  There is more to self-control and self-discipline than just pushing yourself harder.

 

I think Tiger is in match play with Father Time and down 5 with 6 to play.  Personally, I think there is some good golf left in the guy, with flashes of brilliance, and I hate to watch how he's handling his situation.  It's painful.

post #6 of 12
Tiger is not swinging out of his shoes. He's still plenty long. Even this year his swing speed is down only a few MPH over last year.
post #7 of 12

Distance on the PGA tour is pretty important, even it's not 100% accurate. Distance with a little "wiggle room", coupled with a great short game can win a lot of pga tournaments. This includes majors.

 

Now Woods could be the exception to this scenario. His approach/short games in the past have been galaxy class. He could give up some distance off the tee, and still fair pretty well against a lot of the long knockers on tour.

 

My uneducated guess (my wife is the medical authority) on Woods back/knee issues is this. If he were to take enough time off to get as close to 90% healthy (100% is not likely) he can be a force on the pga tour again, even if he went a little shorter off the tee. On the other hand, if he comes back healthy, and can't win, then perhaps it's time to hang up the spikes, and just play for fun with his children. 

post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Tiger is not swinging out of his shoes. He's still plenty long. Even this year his swing speed is down only a few MPH over last year.

I will have to disagree somewhat with that first part. Also, we all know what swinging hard doesn't necessarily increase your swing speed.  I have watched Tiger closely and he is swinging harder than he should but only with his driver. Some of those swings are monstrous!!  If you don't think he IS using a controlled swing explain how a golfer of THAT caliber cannot manage to hit a fairway? Now sometimes it seems like he is also hitting down on the ball with the driver that introduces extra side spin.  But what I notice the most is that it looks like because his arm muscles are so tight, the driver never releases resulting in a slice.  Then he tries to fix it by releasing the club more THEN he hits it left. But somehow while his back is hurting and can't swing 110%, all of a sudden he is hitting fairways.  Now that is just my opinion.

post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
 

Distance on the PGA tour is pretty important, even it's not 100% accurate. Distance with a little "wiggle room", coupled with a great short game can win a lot of pga tournaments. This includes majors.

 

Now Woods could be the exception to this scenario. His approach/short games in the past have been galaxy class. He could give up some distance off the tee, and still fair pretty well against a lot of the long knockers on tour.

 

My uneducated guess (my wife is the medical authority) on Woods back/knee issues is this. If he were to take enough time off to get as close to 90% healthy (100% is not likely) he can be a force on the pga tour again, even if he went a little shorter off the tee. On the other hand, if he comes back healthy, and can't win, then perhaps it's time to hang up the spikes, and just play for fun with his children. 

You may be right about that but I just can't see that dude retiring anytime soon.

post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

I have watched Tiger closely and he is swinging harder than he should but only with his driver. Some of those swings are monstrous!!

 

I disagree, but you're using a lot of ambiguous language like "than he should" and more later in your post.

 

When your swing is not working, when you're forced to "save" things and you get slightly off balance or out of whack, it looks like he's swinging "harder" than he is.

 

A "harder" looking swing is often a "worse" swing but he may not be swinging any "harder" at the ball, and most likely is actually swinging slower at the ball.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

If you don't think he IS using a controlled swing explain how a golfer of THAT caliber cannot manage to hit a fairway?

 

Again more ambiguous words, or at least non-specific. He did manage to hit "a fairway." Several times, in fact. And yet the winner of the entire event hit some awfully crooked drives of his own, often with a 3W. He hit it way left, missed the fairway almost in the hazard on the 72nd hole, etc.

 

The median for the 2014 season on the PGA Tour for accuracy is barely 60%, and that's bound to decrease the farther you hit the ball (btw, Rory is right below the median).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

Now sometimes it seems like he is also hitting down on the ball with the driver that introduces extra side spin.

 

Hitting "down on the ball with the driver" does not "introduce extra side spin." If anything, increasing "backspin" (if you prefer to think of spin as two components) will tilt the spin axis LESS to the side, producing straighter drives.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

But what I notice the most is that it looks like because his arm muscles are so tight, the driver never releases resulting in a slice.

 

His arm muscles "look tight"? And he slices the ball now? I'm gonna continue with the theme here and disagree.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

Then he tries to fix it by releasing the club more THEN he hits it left. But somehow while his back is hurting and can't swing 110%, all of a sudden he is hitting fairways.  Now that is just my opinion.

 

Here's the thing…

 

I don't entirely disagree that he played better golf after his back tightened up or whatever on the back nine on Friday. He was more controlled, he was smoother, etc. If that's the difference between his 80% swings and his 90% swings, then so be it (I disagree that he was swinging super aggressively before). But that's not how he should play golf, either - he should, after he's healthy, swing like Rory. Rory is fearless right now. Sure he hits some foul balls but when he doesn't they're piped and 320. Rory's taking a HUGE rip at the ball, but because it's "on" right now and in control, he looks balanced. He's not having to "save" shots, even though he might be swinging at 95% while Tiger's "huge" swings might have been only 90% or even less.

post #11 of 12

One thing I'll throw out there is that given Tiger's very analytic about his own game, he surely knows that, per Broadie's work, a very large percentage of his strokes gained on the competition in his glory days was from full irons (150-225 yard shots).  I'm sure he knows that if he could get his back and swing right that he can still dominate (5 wins last year anyone) taking a further 10 yards off his driver and then dominating everyone with full iron shots.  I find it hard to believe his problem is he's too macho and is swinging out of his shoes cause he doesn't want to feel weak getting out driven by the kids.  Is he maybe too aggressive in coming back, too caught up in the typical mindset of an elite athlete and wants to push the limit of his body cause he still feels like he can go out and dominate?  Seems that way.  But I don't think the problem is he's swinging dumb aggressive.  More some combo of his swing and mechanics are off and his body isn't working (which must feed back into the former somewhat).

post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

One thing I'll throw out there is that given Tiger's very analytic about his own game, he surely knows that, per Broadie's work, a very large percentage of his strokes gained on the competition in his glory days was from full irons (150-225 yard shots).  I'm sure he knows that if he could get his back and swing right that he can still dominate (5 wins last year anyone) taking a further 10 yards off his driver and then dominating everyone with full iron shots.  I find it hard to believe his problem is he's too macho and is swinging out of his shoes cause he doesn't want to feel weak getting out driven by the kids.  Is he maybe too aggressive in coming back, too caught up in the typical mindset of an elite athlete and wants to push the limit of his body cause he still feels like he can go out and dominate?  Seems that way.  But I don't think the problem is he's swinging dumb aggressive.  More some combo of his swing and mechanics are off and his body isn't working (which must feed back into the former somewhat).

Yea, I don't know for sure. I'd heard a bunch of people discussing that theory on different occasions but you know, it's just a point of discussion. Everybody is guessing

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