or Connect
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Clubhouse › Rules of Golf › Golf Channel Unveiling "Relaxed" Rules Of Golf
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Golf Channel Unveiling "Relaxed" Rules Of Golf - Page 2

post #19 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post



2.    PENALTIES All are 1 stroke, including out-of-bounds, water and lateral hazards, lost balls and unplayable lies. Drop a ball near where the original was lost and play on. -
An ego stroking add.  What does 1 stroke really mean?  It is just a number.

I took that one to be more about re-teeing. People don't like re-teeing.

Also, the fact that we're having debates about what we take these relaxed rules to mean really demonstrates why the rules of golf are so complicated. They need to clarify all this stuff.
post #20 of 108

As long as you don't keep a handicap or play in tournaments, you can use whatever rules you want. By making a set of "official" relaxed rules, maybe these golfers can enjoy their round more. Nothing preventing them from avoiding the relaxed rules or still breaking them, but it might help for some. 

post #21 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
 

As long as you don't keep a handicap or play in tournaments, you can use whatever rules you want. By making a set of "official" relaxed rules, maybe these golfers can enjoy their round more. Nothing preventing them from avoiding the relaxed rules or still breaking them, but it might help for some. 

 

It also makes it easier to compare against other casual players. Anyone maintaining a handicap of course would still have to follow the official rules.

 

But in other sports, we do this all the time in recreational play, where we don't play by the exact same rules as the pros, but still want to have clearly defined rules that let us play an organized game. When you go play pickup basketball in the park for example, no one is going to be calling three second violations, but that doesn't mean you can travel or foul someone. 

 

In general, I think recreational players want clearly defined rules, they don't want everyone to be making up their own rules, they just want the rules to be simple enough to explain to a newcomer in 2 minutes.  To the newcomer, it's really not clear why hitting a ball out of bounds should be worse than hitting it in the water or into the woods, why some drops should be one clublength and others two, or what's the difference between an impediment and an obstruction.

 

So I like the general idea here, though some of the choice of rules could maybe be improved on.

 

1. I like the double par rule, yes you have ESC for handicappers, but this one also speeds up play.  After a certain number of strokes, the golfer is hurting the enjoyment of the other players waiting for him, the following group, etc. 

 

2. I especially like the all penalties one stroke rule, and treating everything like a water hazzard where you drop, rather than re-tee. And allow the drop on the fairway, no closer than where it went OB, entered the hazzard, was lost, or became unplayable.   

 

3. Two minutes search time is fine.

 

4. I'd almost rather the simplified rule here be simply "play it as it lies".  But if we are going to allow improving lies, just make it like the "lift clean and place" local rule, and have it only apply in the fairway.

 

The only one that bothers me some is the no restrictions on equipment. Casual golfers are already exempt from the conforming grooves rule until 2024, even if they are keeping a handicap. And the new rule for anchored putting bans the stroke, not the equipment. And I don't think new players would generally be helped by having more than 14 clubs. So what would the benefit be?

 

I'd be concerned about anything that would encourage anyone to buy non-conforming equipment. Drivers that exceed COR limits? Polara balls designed to fly extra straight? I think casual players would be best off using the same equipment they would be using if they were to become more serious players.

 

And I don't think this really makes the rules much simpler. A simple rule 6 would be, play conforming balls and clubs, up to 14 of them. No restrictions though on things like distance measuring devices.

post #22 of 108

I think the improved lie was summed up perfectly today on MD.   Pros never hit out footprints in bunkers.   They are all raked to perfection.  Not true of places in the recreational world.   It is odd that we are supposed to play by the exact same rules as pros yet we don't get the same course conditions.  

 

I like the idea and personally I think it should be applied to ALL amateurs.   Even in tournaments and for handicaps.   We are not pros.  Period.  Obviously tweek it to an easy to understand and regulate set of rules.  But if a handicap can't be established for the use of tournaments, member guests or casual betting among buddies it won't be implemented much.  You will still have lots of us "having" to post scores playing by the rules and slowing everything down.

 

There are so many ways to speed up golf but people just refuse to be efficient on a course.  

post #23 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintcreek6412 View Post
 

I think the improved lie was summed up perfectly today on MD.   Pros never hit out footprints in bunkers.   They are all raked to perfection.  Not true of places in the recreational world.   It is odd that we are supposed to play by the exact same rules as pros yet we don't get the same course conditions.  

 

I like the idea and personally I think it should be applied to ALL amateurs.   Even in tournaments and for handicaps.   We are not pros.  Period.  Obviously tweek it to an easy to understand and regulate set of rules.  But if a handicap can't be established for the use of tournaments, member guests or casual betting among buddies it won't be implemented much.  You will still have lots of us "having" to post scores playing by the rules and slowing everything down.

 

There are so many ways to speed up golf but people just refuse to be efficient on a course.  

 

Interestingly, those pros to whom you refer, were not born pros.  They grew up playing the same game that we all do, in a lot of the same conditions.

 

Although I FULLY support anyone playing by whatever version of the game they like, especially if it keeps them moving quickly, I have to laugh at the concept of a set of "rules" for people who don't follow the rules....... 

 

And finally, you're right......slow play has nothing to do with what set of rules by which someone chooses to play.  It's about their own sense of urgency to play at a reasonable pace and efficiency in doing so.

post #24 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by acerimusdux View Post

It also makes it easier to compare against other casual players. Anyone maintaining a handicap of course would still have to follow the official rules.

But in other sports, we do this all the time in recreational play, where we don't play by the exact same rules as the pros, but still want to have clearly defined rules that let us play an organized game. When you go play pickup basketball in the park for example, no one is going to be calling three second violations, but that doesn't mean you can travel or foul someone. 

In general, I think recreational players want clearly defined rules, they don't want everyone to be making up their own rules, they just want the rules to be simple enough to explain to a newcomer in 2 minutes.  To the newcomer, it's really not clear why hitting a ball out of bounds should be worse than hitting it in the water or into the woods, why some drops should be one clublength and others two, or what's the difference between an impediment and an obstruction.

So I like the general idea here, though some of the choice of rules could maybe be improved on.

1. I like the double par rule, yes you have ESC for handicappers, but this one also speeds up play.  After a certain number of strokes, the golfer is hurting the enjoyment of the other players waiting for him, the following group, etc. 

2. I especially like the all penalties one stroke rule, and treating everything like a water hazzard where you drop, rather than re-tee. And allow the drop on the fairway, no closer than where it went OB, entered the hazzard, was lost, or became unplayable.   

3. Two minutes search time is fine.

4. I'd almost rather the simplified rule here be simply "play it as it lies".  But if we are going to allow improving lies, just make it like the "lift clean and place" local rule, and have it only apply in the fairway.

The only one that bothers me some is the no restrictions on equipment. Casual golfers are already exempt from the conforming grooves rule until 2024, even if they are keeping a handicap. And the new rule for anchored putting bans the stroke, not the equipment. And I don't think new players would generally be helped by having more than 14 clubs. So what would the benefit be?

I'd be concerned about anything that would encourage anyone to buy non-conforming equipment. Drivers that exceed COR limits? Polara balls designed to fly extra straight? I think casual players would be best off using the same equipment they would be using if they were to become more serious players.

And I don't think this really makes the rules much simpler. A simple rule 6 would be, play conforming balls and clubs, up to 14 of them. No restrictions though on things like distance measuring devices.
Good Point!
post #25 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

Interestingly, those pros to whom you refer, were not born pros.  They grew up playing the same game that we all do, in a lot of the same conditions.

 

Although I FULLY support anyone playing by whatever version of the game they like, especially if it keeps them moving quickly, I have to laugh at the concept of a set of "rules" for people who don't follow the rules....... 

 

And finally, you're right......slow play has nothing to do with what set of rules by which someone chooses to play.  It's about their own sense of urgency to play at a reasonable pace and efficiency in doing so.


Agreed that no one is born pro.  MLB players grew up with alum bats and likely tee-ball or slow pitch.  It's a transition to the pro ranks.   No reason golf can't have a similar transition as far as different rules.

 

The rules are complicated.  Period.   I don't mind them being penal.   They should be.   None of us like stroke and distance but that's part of.   The problem is that there are times when you can't find a ball(lost) that you didn't think was in trouble so your only option is to return to the tees and hit again.   Or the confusion about unplayable lies which in lots of circumstances your only option is going back.   This all takes too much time.   Just make it simple.

 

Or how about one I learned last year......hit a tee shot into a hazard.   It's a hazard that can be playable if you find the ball.   It is set up that if the ball is not found your only option is to tee off again.  99% of the guys I've played with hit a provisional in case they can't find it.   Last year a guy told them if they hit a provisional they are abandoning that first shot and must play the provisional.   We all called BS because it simply didn't make sense.   Well he was right.   Now guys literally waste 10 minutes on this par 3 driving over the bridge, walking across the fairway, crossing a 2" deep creek and looking 5 minutes for their ball.   When they don't find it 80% of the time they now have to go back to the tee and hit again.   Thousands of guys have played this hole in violation of the rules and posted a HC score none the wiser.j

 

People want HCs to level the playing field in lots and lots of recreational golf.   Others don't care either way.   And others will play by only the strict rules of golf.   I can play fast golf by the strict rules but I really think I'm the minority and I've learned a few tricks along the way to speed things up so I don't have to rush putts.  

 

Common sense is completely lacking in the laws of this country.   Why does golf also need to lack common sense in it's rules.   It's like a tax code at times which no one likes.

 

If rules are made that are easy to follow and understand there won't be any breaking of the rules.

post #26 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintcreek6412 View Post
 

I think the improved lie was summed up perfectly today on MD.   Pros never hit out footprints in bunkers.   They are all raked to perfection.  Not true of places in the recreational world.   It is odd that we are supposed to play by the exact same rules as pros yet we don't get the same course conditions.  

 

I like the idea and personally I think it should be applied to ALL amateurs.   Even in tournaments and for handicaps.   We are not pros.  Period.  Obviously tweek it to an easy to understand and regulate set of rules.  But if a handicap can't be established for the use of tournaments, member guests or casual betting among buddies it won't be implemented much.  You will still have lots of us "having" to post scores playing by the rules and slowing everything down.

 

There are so many ways to speed up golf but people just refuse to be efficient on a course.  

 

This  has nothing to do with anything.  The pros actually do hit out of bad lies in bunkers.  I was a hole marshal for a PGA Tour tournament for 4 years.  the location was an area where there are a lot of deer.  There was no way to stop deer for crossing the course early in the morning, but after the corse was prepared for play.  Somehow they seem to like walking through bunkers and leaving nasty hoofprints behind.  Usually the first player noticing this would have his caddie rake the bunker, but sometimes that didn't happen until after a player had been forced to play from a crater.

 

Most of the time they have fairly pristine conditions to play from, but that is something that the rules can't guarantee.  When you become a pro then you can enjoy the perks that go with it.

post #27 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintcreek6412 View Post
 


Agreed that no one is born pro.  MLB players grew up with alum bats and likely tee-ball or slow pitch.  It's a transition to the pro ranks.   No reason golf can't have a similar transition as far as different rules.

 

The rules are complicated.  Period.   I don't mind them being penal.   They should be.   None of us like stroke and distance but that's part of.   The problem is that there are times when you can't find a ball(lost) that you didn't think was in trouble so your only option is to return to the tees and hit again.   Or the confusion about unplayable lies which in lots of circumstances your only option is going back.   This all takes too much time.   Just make it simple.

 

Or how about one I learned last year......hit a tee shot into a hazard.   It's a hazard that can be playable if you find the ball.   It is set up that if the ball is not found your only option is to tee off again.  99% of the guys I've played with hit a provisional in case they can't find it.   Last year a guy told them if they hit a provisional they are abandoning that first shot and must play the provisional.   We all called BS because it simply didn't make sense.   Well he was right.   Now guys literally waste 10 minutes on this par 3 driving over the bridge, walking across the fairway, crossing a 2" deep creek and looking 5 minutes for their ball.   When they don't find it 80% of the time they now have to go back to the tee and hit again.   Thousands of guys have played this hole in violation of the rules and posted a HC score none the wiser.j

 

People want HCs to level the playing field in lots and lots of recreational golf.   Others don't care either way.   And others will play by only the strict rules of golf.   I can play fast golf by the strict rules but I really think I'm the minority and I've learned a few tricks along the way to speed things up so I don't have to rush putts.  

 

Common sense is completely lacking in the laws of this country.   Why does golf also need to lack common sense in it's rules.   It's like a tax code at times which no one likes.

 

If rules are made that are easy to follow and understand there won't be any breaking of the rules.

 

Under the Rules.....the real Rules, a committee (and in a casual game, your group acts as its own committee) can establish a local rule allowing a provisional ball to be played in the situation you describe above.  Tell that guy that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!   ;-)

 

 

Appendix I, Part A, paragraph 2b pertains:

 

2. Water Hazards

 

b. Ball Played Provisionally Under Rule 26-1

 

Permitting play of a ball provisionally under Rule 26-1 for a ball that may be in a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard) of such character that, if the original ball is not found, it is known or virtually certain that it is in the water hazard and it would be impracticable to determine whether the ball is in the hazard or to do so would unduly delay play.

 

 

 

The people who claim that the Rules "lack common sense", often do so out of ignorance of many of the Rules, and almost always out of ignorance of the principles by which the Rules are developed.

post #28 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintcreek6412 View Post
 

I think the improved lie was summed up perfectly today on MD.   Pros never hit out footprints in bunkers.   They are all raked to perfection.  Not true of places in the recreational world.   It is odd that we are supposed to play by the exact same rules as pros yet we don't get the same course conditions.  

 

I like the idea and personally I think it should be applied to ALL amateurs.   Even in tournaments and for handicaps.   We are not pros.  Period.  Obviously tweek it to an easy to understand and regulate set of rules.  But if a handicap can't be established for the use of tournaments, member guests or casual betting among buddies it won't be implemented much.  You will still have lots of us "having" to post scores playing by the rules and slowing everything down.

 

There are so many ways to speed up golf but people just refuse to be efficient on a course.  

 

Nice avatar!!  Is that you??

post #29 of 108

Do you feel the relaxed rules or to get more people to the courses ... that was my assumption ... if courses are closing, is the an attempt to attract more people?

 

So given that assumption, when I look at the recreational field across the street from my work, that is PACKed on most nights, I see a baseball field that has a shorter base path, a closer pitching mound, and a fence that is closer up ... and the rules they play by are not the same the MB uses, but yet they based on those rules ... 

 

So again, given my assumption, then simpler recreational rules make sense to me ... the good news is the "playing field" remains the same, so those that want to use the USGA rules can do do so.  I know when I sucked worse than I do today, re-teeing a ball, just meant I nailed the same house twice!  

 

I also take into account that real recreational golfer, is NOT posting on this forum.  Most golfers here are trying hard to improve and following the rules mean something to us ... but I was "that" recreational golfer not a long ago ... so I get the "relaxed rules." 

post #30 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post
 

 

Nice avatar!!  Is that you??


LOL  Yes it is.  Not my biggest, but one of my most memorable.   It's funny how I find a lot of similarities between deer hunting and golf.   I'm a die hard bow hunter(like the purist golfer) but there is always a time and a place to break out the big gun and have fun......kinda like relaxed rules.  

post #31 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintcreek6412 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post
 

 

Nice avatar!!  Is that you??


LOL  Yes it is.  Not my biggest, but one of my most memorable.   It's funny how I find a lot of similarities between deer hunting and golf.   I'm a die hard bow hunter(like the purist golfer) but there is always a time and a place to break out the big gun and have fun......kinda like relaxed rules.  

 

I won't add anymore OT here.  Check out this thread.

 

http://thesandtrap.com/t/40909/anyone-else-here-hunt

 

Hopefully a lot more posts get added soon.  Getting to be that time of year........  :dance:

post #32 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by isukgolf View Post
 

Do you feel the relaxed rules or to get more people to the courses ... that was my assumption ... if courses are closing, is the an attempt to attract more people?

 

So given that assumption, when I look at the recreational field across the street from my work, that is PACKed on most nights, I see a baseball field that has a shorter base path, a closer pitching mound, and a fence that is closer up ... and the rules they play by are not the same the MB uses, but yet they based on those rules ... 

 

So again, given my assumption, then simpler recreational rules make sense to me ... the good news is the "playing field" remains the same, so those that want to use the USGA rules can do do so.  I know when I sucked worse than I do today, re-teeing a ball, just meant I nailed the same house twice!  

 

I also take into account that real recreational golfer, is NOT posting on this forum.  Most golfers here are trying hard to improve and following the rules mean something to us ... but I was "that" recreational golfer not a long ago ... so I get the "relaxed rules." 

 

The flaw in the logic is that the vast majority of recreational golfers don't play by the rules anyway.  Why the need to somehow codify a set of rules for breaking the real rules?  Has anyone out there been run off a golf course for playing by whatever casual set of rules they've agreed to in their group?

post #33 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

The flaw in the logic is that the vast majority of recreational golfers don't play by the rules anyway.  Why the need to somehow codify a set of rules for breaking the real rules?  Has anyone out there been run off a golf course for playing by whatever casual set of rules they've agreed to in their group?

This^^^^

 

This idea keeps coming back, the idea of making some rules for the guys that don't want to follow the rules to follow...makes me dizzy just typing it. It's a big, fat WHY? moment for me. You wanna play it up? Go ahead. You want to drop in the fairway? Go ahead. You want someone to write rules that allow this? No, but GO AHEAD....

post #34 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

The flaw in the logic is that the vast majority of recreational golfers don't play by the rules anyway.  Why the need to somehow codify a set of rules for breaking the real rules?  Has anyone out there been run off a golf course for playing by whatever casual set of rules they've agreed to in their group?

I was thinking the same thing. If you're not playing by The Rules, why play by any set of rules? Just go out, observe good etiquette, and have fun.
post #35 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

This^^^^

 

This idea keeps coming back, the idea of making some rules for the guys that don't want to follow the rules to follow...makes me dizzy just typing it. It's a big, fat WHY? moment for me. You wanna play it up? Go ahead. You want to drop in the fairway? Go ahead. You want someone to write rules that allow this? No, but GO AHEAD....

 

 

Good question ... and while I am not the best at responding via writing, but it is the label of "cheater" ...  not sure if that makes sense ... 

 

In old days ... if I nailed a house ... the absolute last thing I want to do is re-tee ... but if I do not, then I am cheating ... i have hit balls and I KNOW where it is ... can't find it ... I am not going back ... but am I cheating ...

 

Again, I view the rules as an attempt to get more people that are on the fence about golfing out playing ... not everyone is going to agree ... but I think if you ask the real weekend hackers they would be for it ... 

 

Edit:  I do not agree 100% with the rules they propose, but I do agree with the concept ... 

post #36 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by isukgolf View Post
 

 

 

Good question ... and while I am not the best at responding via writing, but it is the label of "cheater" ...  not sure if that makes sense ... 

 

In old days ... if I nailed a house ... the absolute last thing I want to do is re-tee ... but if I do not, then I am cheating ... i have hit balls and I KNOW where it is ... can't find it ... I am not going back ... but am I cheating ...

 

Again, I view the rules as an attempt to get more people that are on the fence about golfing out playing ... not everyone is going to agree ... but I think if you ask the real weekend hackers they would be for it ... 

 

Edit:  I do not agree 100% with the rules they propose, but I do agree with the concept ... 

 

Sorry, but no, it doesn't make sense.  The only time someone "cheats", is if they're not playing by the rules that the rest of the group is.  If your group wants to play some version of rules that suits you, no one else is ever going to complain. 

 

However, if you think that formalizing some kind of relaxed rules will somehow elevate the game you choose to play in the eyes of those who play by the actual rules, well, it ain't gonna happen.  But again, when playing casually with your buddies, nobody cares how you choose to play the game.  Really.  Nobody.

 

 

 

 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rules of Golf
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Clubhouse › Rules of Golf › Golf Channel Unveiling "Relaxed" Rules Of Golf