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Golf Channel Unveiling "Relaxed" Rules Of Golf - Page 3

post #37 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintcreek6412 View Post
 


Agreed that no one is born pro.  MLB players grew up with alum bats and likely tee-ball or slow pitch.  It's a transition to the pro ranks.   No reason golf can't have a similar transition as far as different rules.

 

The rules are complicated.  Period.   I don't mind them being penal.   They should be.   None of us like stroke and distance but that's part of.   The problem is that there are times when you can't find a ball(lost) that you didn't think was in trouble so your only option is to return to the tees and hit again.   Or the confusion about unplayable lies which in lots of circumstances your only option is going back.   This all takes too much time.   Just make it simple.

 

Or how about one I learned last year......hit a tee shot into a hazard.   It's a hazard that can be playable if you find the ball.   It is set up that if the ball is not found your only option is to tee off again.  99% of the guys I've played with hit a provisional in case they can't find it.   Last year a guy told them if they hit a provisional they are abandoning that first shot and must play the provisional.   We all called BS because it simply didn't make sense.   Well he was right.   Now guys literally waste 10 minutes on this par 3 driving over the bridge, walking across the fairway, crossing a 2" deep creek and looking 5 minutes for their ball.   When they don't find it 80% of the time they now have to go back to the tee and hit again.   Thousands of guys have played this hole in violation of the rules and posted a HC score none the wiser.j

 

People want HCs to level the playing field in lots and lots of recreational golf.   Others don't care either way.   And others will play by only the strict rules of golf.   I can play fast golf by the strict rules but I really think I'm the minority and I've learned a few tricks along the way to speed things up so I don't have to rush putts.

 

Common sense is completely lacking in the laws of this country.   Why does golf also need to lack common sense in it's rules.   It's like a tax code at times which no one likes.

 

If rules are made that are easy to follow and understand there won't be any breaking of the rules.

There is a difference between golf and MLB.  MLB doesn't hold tournaments where any non-pro can qualify and play in the World Series where as in golf, non-pro's can qualify to play in pro tournaments, including Majors.

 

As others have said, beginners don't play by the ROG, so a new simplified set of rules is redundant.  I don't know any person who refuses to play golf because the Rules are too long or complicated.  Most of the people that I know used to play golf and don't today cite; frustration in their lack of improvement, time and expense, in some cases it's combinations of these reasons. 

 

I believe the problem with golf is;

  • It still has a stigma of being a non-athletic, old mans game by non-golfers
  • It Is the hardest game to reach even a mediocre level in for the majority of people.

 

People will find the money and time to pursue things they want but most people don't enjoy getting their butts kicked for 4 - 5 hours and that is what a round of golf represents to most beginners.  You can let them carry 30 non-conforming clubs but if their swing isn't good, they will still, shank, chunk and thin shots all over the place.   Most people can't reconcile while they are unable to improve in a sport that is supposed to be played by old / out of shape people.


Edited by newtogolf - 8/18/14 at 2:06pm
post #38 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

  Most people can't reconcile while they are unable to improve in a sport that is supposed to be played by old / out of shape people.

 

If only the silly game didn't look so damn easy when you watch the guys on TV play......  ;-)

post #39 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

If only the silly game didn't look so damn easy when you watch the guys on TV play......  a2_wink.gif
Oh, I can usually make 2-3 holes look easy peasy, it's the other 15-16 holes that sink me.
:-p
Actually, it's usually 2-3 holes that I make look easy, 10-11 holes that I make look reasonably doable and 4 or 5 where I might as well be trying to start a unicorn farm.
post #40 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

However, if you think that formalizing some kind of relaxed rules will somehow elevate the game you choose to play in the eyes of those who play by the actual rules, well, it ain't gonna happen.  But again, when playing casually with your buddies, nobody cares how you choose to play the game.  Really.  Nobody.

 

 

 

 

 

Never in my wildest imagination would I think relaxed rules would elevate the game in the eyes of those who play by the actual rules; in fact, I would except the exact opposite ... its not the target group I think the relaxed rules are aimed at ... 

 

However, I like the debate and discussion around the topic ... 

post #41 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

If only the silly game didn't look so damn easy when you watch the guys on TV play......  ;-)

They do make it look easy don't they?  Half of them don't even look like they swing hard yet rocket the ball 300+ yards.  If I knew how hard golf was when I was 20, I'd have started playing it then rather than waiting until I was in my late 40's.

 

Last week I played with a guy in his mid - late 70's who went to school on a golf scholarship and tried unsuccessfully to turn pro.  While he didn't hit the ball as far as he used to, his accuracy was amazing.  I don't think he missed the fairway once on his drives that were still 220+ yards and he was very accurate from 100 yards and in.  Even at his current age, he was playing the game at a level I could only hope to one day get close to.

post #42 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

And just what is "common sense" anyway.  

 

An oxymoron, since sense has never been common. ;-)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by flintcreek6412 View Post
 

I think the improved lie was summed up perfectly today on MD.   Pros never hit out footprints in bunkers.   They are all raked to perfection.  Not true of places in the recreational world.   It is odd that we are supposed to play by the exact same rules as pros yet we don't get the same course conditions.  

 

I like the idea and personally I think it should be applied to ALL amateurs.   Even in tournaments and for handicaps.   We are not pros.  Period.  Obviously tweek it to an easy to understand and regulate set of rules.  But if a handicap can't be established for the use of tournaments, member guests or casual betting among buddies it won't be implemented much.  You will still have lots of us "having" to post scores playing by the rules and slowing everything down.

 

There are so many ways to speed up golf but people just refuse to be efficient on a course.  

 

Playing by the rules and playing at a reasonable speed are not mutually exclusive.  People who are slow using the real rules will be slow using the relaxed "rules".

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by isukgolf View Post
 

Do you feel the relaxed rules or to get more people to the courses ... that was my assumption ... if courses are closing, is the an attempt to attract more people?

 

 

 

No, people play this way as it is.  As David in FL said, codifying Rules for People Who Don't Play by the Rules has its own internal contradictions. 

post #43 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by isukgolf View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

This^^^^

 

This idea keeps coming back, the idea of making some rules for the guys that don't want to follow the rules to follow...makes me dizzy just typing it. It's a big, fat WHY? moment for me. You wanna play it up? Go ahead. You want to drop in the fairway? Go ahead. You want someone to write rules that allow this? No, but GO AHEAD....

 

 

Good question ... and while I am not the best at responding via writing, but it is the label of "cheater" ...  not sure if that makes sense ... 

 

In old days ... if I nailed a house ... the absolute last thing I want to do is re-tee ... but if I do not, then I am cheating ... i have hit balls and I KNOW where it is ... can't find it ... I am not going back ... but am I cheating ...

 

Again, I view the rules as an attempt to get more people that are on the fence about golfing out playing ... not everyone is going to agree ... but I think if you ask the real weekend hackers they would be for it ... 

 

Edit:  I do not agree 100% with the rules they propose, but I do agree with the concept ... 

 

 

It's only cheating if someone is hurt by it.  If it's only you that's hurt (whether by carrying a lower handicap that you deserve, or by being called out for rules breaches when you play a competition with a weak idea of the real rules), then go for it.  If you cheat for gain, whether in a money game or in a competition, then yes, it is cheating.

post #44 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post


No, people play this way as it is.  As David in FL said, codifying Rules for People Who Don't Play by the Rules has its own internal contradictions. 
On Golf Channel today, they did a quick segment on the "gimme" rule. Afterward in their round table, it was agreed that these "rules" are being well-received overall- or at least much less poorly than they feared. They stressed that people who are so inclined should just pick one or two or three of the rules, if they disagree with others.

So I guess this is just not a full set of rules, but more of an a-la-carte set of ideas from which beginners can choose to give them some sense of structure. Isn't that also a set of contradictions? A set of rules from which you are free to ignore any, if you choose.

As they said, the key is just to have fun, and I've not ever met anyone on the course who'd have disagreed. I expect they'll finish up discussing each rule this week (one per day) and then quietly let the topic fade over time. Mission accomplished. Golf Channel made golf fun again. Hurray.
post #45 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallT View Post


On Golf Channel today, they did a quick segment on the "gimme" rule. Afterward in their round table, it was agreed that these "rules" are being well-received overall- or at least much less poorly than they feared. They stressed that people who are so inclined should just pick one or two or three of the rules, if they disagree with others.

So I guess this is just not a full set of rules, but more of an a-la-carte set of ideas from which beginners can choose to give them some sense of structure. Isn't that also a set of contradictions? A set of rules from which you are free to ignore any, if you choose.

As they said, the key is just to have fun, and I've not ever met anyone on the course who'd have disagreed. I expect they'll finish up discussing each rule this week (one per day) and then quietly let the topic fade over time. Mission accomplished. Golf Channel made golf fun again. Hurray.

 

Agree.  Which leaves us with: "What's the point?"  Nothing stops people from doing this now.  The very word rules implies some kind of codification of permitted and non-permitted actions.  But if each one is voluntary there is no codification.  I also do not understand how calling common practices "rules" somehow makes the game more fun for the guy who was already playing that way anyway, as so many do.

post #46 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post

I don't really understand #6, about equipment. Are people really clamoring to add a 15th club?

 

Probably more from the standpoint of gigging the average player for over 14 clubs is silly. Hey, carry 20 if you want; that kind of thinking...you still gotta hit the shot.

post #47 of 108
Yeah if you need funny rules to play better golf what's the chance you need more clubs? If you have to fluff the ball to get it in the air or whatever you aren't hitting any one club well. If people are going to start breaking equipment rules non-conforming clubs would be more helpful. I've seen 550-600cc driver heads on eBay. Though the one driver I tried exceeding COR limits had no magic in it for me. I know a guy that plays with one. I do think golfers could be a little more careful choosing what clubs to buy. The ball fluffer guys usually are trying to use gear beyond their capabilities, the I play blades and a tour driver to shoot 100 crowd but I need that "feedback".
post #48 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post

Probably more from the standpoint of gigging the average player for over 14 clubs is silly. Hey, carry 20 if you want; that kind of thinking...you still gotta hit the shot.

And the majority of players to which this thread applies, don't know how far they hit each of the 14 they're allowed to carry now! a2_wink.gif
post #49 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post


And the majority of players to which this thread applies, don't know how far they hit each of the 14 they're allowed to carry now! a2_wink.gif

 

Point taken & understood. 

 

Look at it like this - someone walks over to a bag & goes, "...11, 12, 13, 14...15! That's two shots per hole, Chump."

 

It's, as the title suggests, 'relaxing' the rules. This would be a perfect example of it. Whether they can hit the clubs they got is an entirely different situation.

post #50 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post
 

 

Point taken & understood. 

 

Look at it like this - someone walks over to a bag & goes, "...11, 12, 13, 14...15! That's two shots per hole, Chump."

 

It's, as the title suggests, 'relaxing' the rules. This would be a perfect example of it. Whether they can hit the clubs they got is an entirely different situation.

 

I'll bet a paycheck that if you pick 10 random social golfers and ask them how many clubs they're allowed to carry by the rules, 7 of them couldn't tell you.  They might count the number in their bag and guess that, but they wouldn't know.....nor do they care.

post #51 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post


And the majority of players to which this thread applies, don't know how far they hit each of the 14 they're allowed to carry now! a2_wink.gif

I think most have an idea of how far they hit each club, but they determine their numbers off of perfect lies on mats at the range, not on a course.  On top of that, they don't properly account for the differences that tougher lies, uphill or downhill targets and wind make.

 

There's also this macho attitude that most higher handicappers have that they have to hit their 7i for 150 yard shots so if their GPS says 150, they pull their 7i without hesitation.   We have a Par 3 hole on our course that plays 150 but the green is uphill and there's usually a 1 or 2 club wind.  Guys will give me crap cause I'll pull a 6i or even a 5h if the wind is against us but they refuse to pull anything lower than a 7i and always come up short, which is then followed up with excuses about wind gusts and distractions.

post #52 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

I'll bet a paycheck that if you pick 10 random social golfers and ask them how many clubs they're allowed to carry by the rules, 7 of them couldn't tell you.  They might count the number in their bag and guess that, but they wouldn't know.....nor do they care.

 

Thus the reason for the 'relaxed' rule. If 7 out of 10 don't even know, why penalize them? You're just making the case for the relaxed rule. 

post #53 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

I'll bet a paycheck that if you pick 10 random social golfers and ask them how many clubs they're allowed to carry by the rules, 7 of them couldn't tell you.  They might count the number in their bag and guess that, but they wouldn't know.....nor do they care.

Some bags actually allow you to carry 15 (one slot may be for an umbrella or ball retriever) but those that have them swear they are allowed to carry 15

post #54 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post

Thus the reason for the 'relaxed' rule. If 7 out of 10 don't even know, why penalize them? You're just making the case for the relaxed rule. 

But that's the point exactly. None of these golfers knows, cares, or plays by the rules as it is. Therefore there's absolutely no reason to codify another set of rules that will be equally ignored by the vast majority, and will only serve to confuse those who want to transition to real golf at some point.
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