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Dick's out of the golf business all together? - Page 7

post #109 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

 

Ah, but tell that to the thousands of middle to low-income families who couldn't otherwise afford some of the products that they sell at discounted prices, or the hundreds of thousands of people that they employ who might otherwise be out of work.

 

The knife cuts both ways....  ;-) 

Unfortunately, it's the business practices of corporations like Walmart that ensure that they will likely stay middle to low-income. It's a tough situation for these people and a viscous circle. By shopping at Walmart they're supporting the system that keeps them in the have-not camp with limited buying power but at the same time they see Walmart as a wonderful way to increase their buying power. Catch 22.

 

Hard to find a gig with decent pay and benefits when so many small businesses are being squeezed to death by Walmart, Target and similar soul-sucking enterprises. 

post #110 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

Unfortunately, it's the business practices of corporations like Walmart that ensure that they will likely stay middle to low-income. It's a tough situation for these people and a viscous circle. By shopping at Walmart they're supporting the system that keeps them in the have-not camp with limited buying power but at the same time they see Walmart as a wonderful way to increase their buying power. Catch 22.

 

Hard to find a gig with decent pay and benefits when so many small businesses are being squeezed to death by Walmart, Target and similar soul-sucking enterprises.

QFT, but it's not just business, it's our government too.  Both do just enough to allow people to scrap by so they don't revolt but at the same time, they know these people will have a tough time reaching the next level.  Walmart is like the Blob, it just rolls into a neighborhood and absorbs every small business in it's path.  I refuse to shop at those stores, not just for their impact on small business, but overall the experience is horrible as well.

post #111 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

There's a course in Erie offering $14 for nine holes.

 

That includes the cart.

 

I get a chance to talk to head golf pros and course managers in our area (greater St. Louis). A couple of the courses which appear to be in the best shape from a capital standpoint have just emerged from foreclosure.

 

They were decent from course construction standpoint, and the new owners got them from creditors for chump change. Nobody's in the market for a 150-acre plot to build a new subdivision or a factory.

 

If you were to build a course for everyday golfers, the trick would be to get someone to donate the land to you. Maybe start an area foundation to run it. Then, build an interesting but not fancy course with 30 sand traps and a practice range. The donation of the land would keep your capital costs lower. You would want to invest enough money to get a medium-grade course - if you cut corners and have to rebuild about year 5, you're sunk.

 

If a private owner with money builds a course, or buys one, it's often a labor of love. I worked as a hole marshall at a tour event with banker who knew an area guy who had swooped in and bought one of the struggling courses. The banker said the new course owner was turning a small profit, but he said there's a lots of better investments for that amount of money tied up in the course.

post #112 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post
 

If you were to build a course for everyday golfers, the trick would be to get someone to donate the land to you. Maybe start an area foundation to run it. Then, build an interesting but not fancy course with 30 sand traps and a practice range. The donation of the land would keep your capital costs lower. You would want to invest enough money to get a medium-grade course - if you cut corners and have to rebuild about year 5, you're sunk.

 

If a private owner with money builds a course, or buys one, it's often a labor of love. I worked as a hole marshall at a tour event with banker who knew an area guy who had swooped in and bought one of the struggling courses. The banker said the new course owner was turning a small profit, but he said there's a lots of better investments for that amount of money tied up in the course.

 

That is exactly what Kenny Perry did.  He bought a piece of land, and built a course for regular folks.  $30 for 18 including cart on weekdays, $35 on weekends.  Annual $1000 membership for unlimited golf (which include spouse, kids under 18, and ft student kids up to age 23).  $10 cart rental.

 

I played there once and in is a nice, not fancy, down home place.  I have no idea, however, how they do financially.  But I enjoyed the atmosphere and enjoyed my round there.  And as a bonus, as I was finishing I saw a guy with a funky swing on the range and it was the man himself.  I got to meet him and chat with him.  And I saw him hanging out in the pro-shop at a card table with his buddies.  Just a regular guy.  Now a big family favorite.

post #113 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by imsys0042 View Post

Is this being posted from 1976? I'm surrounded by the Redneck Riveria and even on courses out in the country with the muscle shirt crowd and spitting tobacco all over the course sets you back $35. It's almost insane what is being charged by courses since thy offer no late afternoon discounts or things like that.

I just took a quick look on GolfNow. I found dozens of available 18 hole times on a bunch of courses for well under $20 (some under $10) for next weekend. A holiday weekend no less.

Golf need not cost an arm and a leg.
post #114 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

I just took a quick look on GolfNow. I found dozens of available 18 hole times on a bunch of courses for well under $20 (some under $10) for next weekend. A holiday weekend no less.

Golf need not cost an arm and a leg.

I moved to the wrong place. Only think that 8 days a week.
post #115 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by imsys0042 View Post

I moved to the wrong place. Only think that 8 days a week.

In case I wasn't clear, that was for the Pittsburgh area that I checked.

You've got a ton of cheap golf available to you, if you want....
post #116 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post



In case I wasn't clear, that was for the Pittsburgh area that I checked.



You've got a ton of cheap golf available to you, if you want....

 



I'm confused about where he is. "Redneck Riviera" or Pittsburgh?

Not many deals for $20 that I've found on the R R. a2_wink.gif
post #117 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post



In case I wasn't clear, that was for the Pittsburgh area that I checked.



You've got a ton of cheap golf available to you, if you want....

 



I'm confused about where he is. "Redneck Riviera" or Pittsburgh?

Not many deals for $20 that I've found on the R R. a2_wink.gif

If you're talking FL panhandle, there's a ton on GN there too....also $15 and less. Check the Hot Deals.
post #118 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post



If you're talking FL panhandle, there's a ton on GN there too....also $15 and less. Check the Hot Deals.

 



I'm going to Orange Beach next month. I'm sure I'll play Soldiers Creek just because it's my favorite course to play (but it's not exactly cheap) but maybe I'll check around across the Florida line as well.
post #119 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

In case I wasn't clear, that was for the Pittsburgh area that I checked.

You've got a ton of cheap golf available to you, if you want....


Ah sorry. I didn't catch that. Yes, I've seen some of those on golf now. It's a little bit more granular than that. There is cheap golf for people if they want it. I got a hot deal on GN for $22 at a course on Tuesday but I should have gotten $23 change.

From playing around here for 5 (long, long) years there are three types of courses:

1 - higher end daily fee courses that are at a premium
2 - real goat paths in the country that charge the rates you mention
3 - Real goat paths that charge way too much and are hurting in some way

#2 you will probably have a better experience than #3 in my experience. And #3 is where my commentary is aimed at. There are too many courses that charge too much for the golf you get. The rates you found are basically at courses that are of the same standard as the $40 - $45 courses in the area. There are reasons why that can happen, namely bad management, league play that supports a tee sheet that is only half full or a membership that supports a half full tee sheet.

There's a case to be made that either some courses should be charging more or some should be charging less. Out here it largely depends on location and what people within half an hour will support. However most of those $20 or less rounds are on really rough courses and you won't be playing there for long if you are serious about the game.

It's great that there are a range of courses to play. But price as a barrier to entry is difficult. Two weeks ago I played on a beautiful course in Ohio for $35. Nicest public course I played this year. The sea hag at the local place next to my father-in-law wants $42 for a goat path. Completely out of whack. And she's in the middle of nowhere!
post #120 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post



In case I wasn't clear, that was for the Pittsburgh area that I checked.



You've got a ton of cheap golf available to you, if you want....

 



I'm confused about where he is. "Redneck Riviera" or Pittsburgh?

Not many deals for $20 that I've found on the R R. a2_wink.gif

I'm in the midst of severe culture shock. Best serious answer is that once you move away from pittsburgh, the city, you are deep in the country in a lot of places. I've shown up to several courses with a tucked in shirt and been told I'm high-flalut'in. Lot of fun, but that term is from my wife's cousins about some of the areas around here. There is actually a vey bad divide between private, nicer public and really rough courses. Not too many places for aspiring golfers who are getting better to go one level up. We need more medium range courses around where I live.
post #121 of 124
The point remains, you don't have to spend a lot of money to play golf.

You can choose to, which is fine. I play better courses almost exclusively. But that doesn't mean that golf has to be an expensive endeavor....
post #122 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

The point remains, you don't have to spend a lot of money to play golf.

You can choose to, which is fine. I play better courses almost exclusively. But that doesn't mean that golf has to be an expensive endeavor....


I'm actually not trying to argue. But, a lot of people don't have that choice. I'm not as rich as my avatar, but I can play nicer courses within my budget. I actually belong to a private club, but the dues are low enough where it's a wash if I went to a mixture of nicer courses and rougher courses over a month. A lot of people will get bored with lower end courses if they improve and get better but won't pay double, at least rates, for the next level.

However if you are serious about the game, I don't think you'd want to play 5800 courses with dirt bunkers and tee boxes not mowed in a week. I have experience in 2 golf markets NJ and Western PA. In both markets you pay a premium for medium range courses, IMO, and that is what is missing for a lot of people.
post #123 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

The point remains, you don't have to spend a lot of money to play golf.

You can choose to, which is fine. I play better courses almost exclusively. But that doesn't mean that golf has to be an expensive endeavor....

This is very true, I can't afford to spend a lot of money on golf so I find many ways around it. (remember to check for free rounds on your birthday month!!!)

However, most people don't know about all the good deals going around so they just don't bother. 

post #124 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

The point remains, you don't have to spend a lot of money to play golf.

You can choose to, which is fine. I play better courses almost exclusively. But that doesn't mean that golf has to be an expensive endeavor....

 

I agree, and Orlando is a perfect example of this.

 

You have the top-end courses (Grand Cypress, Bay Hill, etc) where you can drop some good coin to play. But then you also have meat n potatoes courses like Dubsdread or Rolling Hills where 18 & a cart is $30 or under. 

 

It comes down to each person's priorities on how to spend their discretionary income. Some like the movies. Some like ballet classes or whatever. I spend mine on golf. And if you enjoy it, money really isn't an issue if it's within your discretionary budget. People are going to do what they enjoy.

 

Now whether golf is losing people due to its cost or whatever, I don't know. I think the main impediment to playing golf is the time commitment. Not just the 4-5 hours to actually play, but the practice time (unless you're happy with playing once a month and sucking), travel time to/from the course, etc. People are busy. Carving out that much time is difficult for many.

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