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Dick's out of the golf business all together? - Page 6

post #91 of 124

I was referring to how it became a fad for so many people in the mid to late 90's

post #92 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownCoast View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post
 

I've been skateboarding for 15 years, train BJJ and Muay Thai kickboxing for 5 years now, trust me...chicks aren't all that impressed unless you're a professional at those things too. 

 

I mean I started skateboarding when it was THE THING to do so there definitely was girls everywhere. But after about 5 years that died and skateboarding was looked at as a fad to a ton of people. MMA has to be on a major decline now too. The UFC is basically only shown at BWW when just a few years ago you could find the PPV's at a vast array of sports bars.

 

Golf has been around for how long now? It might be on a decline (compared to the last decade) but it isn't going anywhere. Anyone that doesn't think it's cool just hasn't played that much, they need to be reformed. I've brought a few of my skateboarding friends to the course in the past year, they're hooked now. It's pretty funny seeing Flip t-shirts and tattoo's on the golf course. 

I agree golf is fun! and I to have tattoos that are visible on the course and sometimes get the odd look from someone who just isn't into that.. I'm just saying it was cool to want to play golf or just playing golf when Tiger hit the scene. Now it has just gone back to what it was, with slightly better fashion. Hockey has been around for over 100 years and unless you live in Canada its not that cool. To golfers in the modern game (people that were between 12-30 years old when Tiger first hit the scene) there is far more things to be excited about. But now it just seems like unless you golf it is really hard to convince new people to take it up. people just aren't interested in it anymore.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownCoast View Post
 

I was referring to how it became a fad for so many people in the mid to late 90's

Thanks.  Can you multi-quote in the future?  Just hit the multi button on the first post you want to quote, then the quote button on the subsequent posts.

post #93 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post

How many comments have you seen lately show people saying that golf is too expensive? 

A LOT. Everywhere, that's the main complaint I hear. Perhaps stingy was the wrong word for you? 

I am in the golf business wholesale and retail. and have been for decades. it's not a cost issue or as you put it stingy. Hear me out for a second with an example. let's say you are 35 years old & play 20 rounds of golf per year at your local course. your course charges you $75.00 to play. The cost of up keep, payroll, admin, insurance you name it is ungodly expensive but rather than that course charge $100 per round, they charge 75 to keep guys like you playing. in other words their profit is closely inline with what the area people like you are will support. their profit is enough to keep things going as well as possible future and existing capital improvements- such as carts, cart paths mowers etc.

Follow me.

Golf is too expensive!!!!! So everyone scratches their head and said I wish my course had lower green fees . if your course lowered their green fees to $ 55-60 per round, would you play 35- 40 times per year? the answer is likely no, you may play a few more times, but you won't play twice as many on a 20% fee reduction. Why 40 times, well that's what the course needs to regain the profitability they just lost by charging $55-60. For your 20 usual rounds. now what makes it fiurther difficult is fewer newer golfers are coming into the game, not just a few but almost none. conversely older guys 50+ that have played those 20 rounds are now playing 10 or less.

Now on a side note if you do have a membership, not a super exclusive private club but a semi private club....when was the last time your membership fee went up more than 5-10% yearly. obviously the cost of doing business in running and maintaining a golf course has gone up every year.
post #94 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post


I am in the golf business wholesale and retail. and have been for decades. it's not a cost issue or as you put it stingy. Hear me out for a second with an example. let's say you are 35 years old & play 20 rounds of golf per year at your local course. your course charges you $75.00 to play. The cost of up keep, payroll, admin, insurance you name it is ungodly expensive but rather than that course charge $100 per round, they charge 75 to keep guys like you playing. in other words their profit is closely inline with what the area people like you are will support. their profit is enough to keep things going as well as possible future and existing capital improvements- such as carts, cart paths mowers etc.

Follow me.

Golf is too expensive!!!!! So everyone scratches their head and said I wish my course had lower green fees . if your course lowered their green fees to $ 55-60 per round, would you play 35- 40 times per year? the answer is likely no, you may play a few more times, but you won't play twice as many on a 20% fee reduction. Why 40 times, well that's what the course needs to regain the profitability they just lost by charging $55-60. For your 20 usual rounds. now what makes it fiurther difficult is fewer newer golfers are coming into the game, not just a few but almost none. conversely older guys 50+ that have played those 20 rounds are now playing 10 or less.

Now on a side note if you do have a membership, not a super exclusive private club but a semi private club....when was the last time your membership fee went up more than 5-10% yearly. obviously the cost of doing business in running and maintaining a golf course has gone up every year.

I hear what you're saying, but we're just not on the same wavelength. Lowering green fees to $50? We are talking about two different kinds of golfers here. If golf needs more players, they're going to have to advertise 9 holes more and more around the price of $15-$20. $50 is astronomical to someone who wants to get into the game.  

post #95 of 124

I will, and thanks for the heads up cause I didn't know you had to hit multi and then quote I just tried hitting multi but didn't know how to add the second or third one. My second reply was just after I had noticed the former post so thats why it came in late but like I said even if I had noticed it I wouldn't have been able to do that cause I wasn't sure exactly how.

post #96 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post

How many comments have you seen lately show people saying that golf is too expensive? 

A LOT. Everywhere, that's the main complaint I hear. Perhaps stingy was the wrong word for you? 

I am in the golf business wholesale and retail. and have been for decades. it's not a cost issue or as you put it stingy. Hear me out for a second with an example. let's say you are 35 years old & play 20 rounds of golf per year at your local course. your course charges you $75.00 to play. The cost of up keep, payroll, admin, insurance you name it is ungodly expensive but rather than that course charge $100 per round, they charge 75 to keep guys like you playing. in other words their profit is closely inline with what the area people like you are will support. their profit is enough to keep things going as well as possible future and existing capital improvements- such as carts, cart paths mowers etc.

Follow me.

Golf is too expensive!!!!! So everyone scratches their head and said I wish my course had lower green fees . if your course lowered their green fees to $ 55-60 per round, would you play 35- 40 times per year? the answer is likely no, you may play a few more times, but you won't play twice as many on a 20% fee reduction. Why 40 times, well that's what the course needs to regain the profitability they just lost by charging $55-60. For your 20 usual rounds. now what makes it fiurther difficult is fewer newer golfers are coming into the game, not just a few but almost none. conversely older guys 50+ that have played those 20 rounds are now playing 10 or less.

Now on a side note if you do have a membership, not a super exclusive private club but a semi private club....when was the last time your membership fee went up more than 5-10% yearly. obviously the cost of doing business in running and maintaining a golf course has gone up every year.

Thanks for posting. It is good to hear from people in the industry.

post #97 of 124

I was in Dicks in Huntington Beach, CA last night, mostly just to see if anything was on clearance lol...which there was (got a Nike Dri-fit polo for 50% off and a doz TM TPX balls for 34.99). My friend I know from an adult hoops league I play in works there (not in golf) and I asked him what was going on with the golf dept. He said that golf sales don't come anywhere near the other departments (workout apparel, other sports equipment, shoes, hunting/camping) and this is in SoCal, where we play golf year-round! So, they are going to slowly try and clear out most of the golf stuff until they are down to mostly just balls and accessories. 

 

I'm not really surprised by this. I go to this Dick's a lot, but the only golf related stuff I buy are golf balls and gloves if they are on sale or if I have a coupon/rewards bucks. They have a terrible selection of clubs. Way too much top-flight and other off brand stuff. The name brand stuff is mostly driver/woods/hybrids and GI irons (no Titleist, no Ping, no Mizuno). They also have a very odd selection of wedges and putters, that are just sort of "dumped" together in an area. The golf pros that work there are nice enough but not very helpful. I had a putter re-gripped there once and it was done very poorly. Ended up getting a full refund. I once asked why they don't carry Titleist, Ping or Mizuno in this store and the pro said, "well, because most people can't hit those clubs...they are made for professionals. What's Mizuna?" :-O LOL!!

 

So, yeah, my point is...I'm not surprised they are getting "out of the golf business." Probably just put a Cross-fit or MMA section where the clubs were and watch sales go through the roof lol.

post #98 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grndslmhttr3 View Post
 

I only took a few minutes, didn't even speak to any employees, so it's all good, right? FWIW I did feel a bit guilty afterward.

 

Sure, they spent all that money building the building, stocking it, etc. in order to  provide a public service for people wanting to buy elsewhere.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Dawn View Post
 

I am happily admitting my ignorance of the topic. If you have actual information, please spout off.

 

I think David's point is that another poster making sweeping conclusions and claims about Dick's pricing policy based on the mark-up on a single item was unwarranted.  

post #99 of 124

I realize this isn't really the topic, but F*** Walmart. 

post #100 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post
 

I hear what you're saying, but we're just not on the same wavelength. Lowering green fees to $50? We are talking about two different kinds of golfers here. If golf needs more players, they're going to have to advertise 9 holes more and more around the price of $15-$20. $50 is astronomical to someone who wants to get into the game.

I don't think it's price that prevents someone from getting into the game, I think it's the difficulty of the game.  When you play golf, you're on display to everyone else on the course.  Some people aren't self conscious and don't care how they are perceived but most don't want to go out there on their own and hack up a course in front of strangers.

 

What golf should do, is provide golfers a path to becoming a better golfer.  Start out on a range, learn the basics of a swing.  If the golf pro isn't booked for a lesson, he should be on the range providing some free advice and guidance as a service.  After getting fairly proficient at the range, move to executive Par 3 courses where things will move faster and it's a less intimidating environment.  Once they are comfortable on Par 3 courses, move up to 9 holes on a regular course.

 

When I got into golf the first time, I had no idea what steps I needed to take to get better, I just knew I wasn't going to play on a real course and embarrass myself.  Other sports have instruction / leagues that teach the kids how to play the sport and progress in it.  Golf is trying with the First Tee program but it's not as wide spread as little leagues, etc.  Courses should also do more to attract beginners by holding free seminars, offering free or inexpensive group lessons and bundling packages that make sense for a beginner.

post #101 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post

Because then they are completely beholden to Wal Mart for a huge percentage of their business. Wal Mart can demand lower and lower prices, new models, etc.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

While continually pinching them on cost.


And if WalMart drops the company, after they scaled their production to be 5x what it used to be or whatever, the business collapses.

 

 

Ding, ding, ding......two winners.

 

A small manufacturer often dreams of the volume that Walmart will provide them, but once in, they can no longer support any production volume outside of the enormous demand of Walmart.  Sounds great, until Walmart demands a reduction in price and the producer realizes that they have no leverage to refuse because now, Walmart is their only customer.  Agree and barely break even, or refuse and go out of business. 

 

The moral of the story?  Be careful of what you wish for.....

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

I realize this isn't really the topic, but F*** Walmart. 

 

Ah, but tell that to the thousands of middle to low-income families who couldn't otherwise afford some of the products that they sell at discounted prices, or the hundreds of thousands of people that they employ who might otherwise be out of work.

 

The knife cuts both ways....  ;-) 

post #102 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

I don't think it's price that prevents someone from getting into the game, I think it's the difficulty of the game.  When you play golf, you're on display to everyone else on the course.  Some people aren't self conscious and don't care how they are perceived but most don't want to go out there on their own and hack up a course in front of strangers.

What golf should do, is provide golfers a path to becoming a better golfer.  Start out on a range, learn the basics of a swing.  If the golf pro isn't booked for a lesson, he should be on the range providing some free advice and guidance as a service.  After getting fairly proficient at the range, move to executive Par 3 courses where things will move faster and it's a less intimidating environment.  Once they are comfortable on Par 3 courses, move up to 9 holes on a regular course.

When I got into golf the first time, I had no idea what steps I needed to take to get better, I just knew I wasn't going to play on a real course and embarrass myself.  Other sports have instruction / leagues that teach the kids how to play the sport and progress in it.  Golf is trying with the First Tee program but it's not as wide spread as little leagues, etc.  Courses should also do more to attract beginners by holding free seminars, offering free or inexpensive group lessons and bundling packages that make sense for a beginner.

A very valid point above.

when I think back how I got into golf. the PGA pro was the most popular guy in the neighborhood, the club was social for families, it included tennis, a pool, an Olympic size pool and a separate diving pool, it had 2 restaurants one for functions ( Christmas parties, weddings) and another was the dark mahogany bar ( with ash trays) there was a junior membership, and a family memebrship. There were member tourneys leagues , womens league and a handful of junior tourneys- one of which I won but couldn't accept the trophy because I had my paper route to do. there was a small proshops balls and tees, maybe a hat and umbrella. Most of us has fundamental knowledge of the rules by the age of 10 and played by them- thanks to the pro.

The point I am trying make here is clubs of this nature will survive and perhaps even prosper. Its clubs like these that allow young people to prosper, the pro was the " the man!"

The 80 and 90s came an went with very very few clubs of this nature being built, including the 2000s. the pro has now become a business manager of sorts, planting seeds of new golfers has taken a back seat for some. corses are tougher to play, tougher to maintain and the courses have become unfriendly to women, Mothers and for the most part families. This was also detrimental you see Women decide on & spend a very large share of the family income. men may earn the lion share but women physically pay the bills and set the budget. some golf course were built in areas without house nearby, or beyond the magic 15 minutes drive that most are very willing to accept as " nearby". today's club has a yoga studio, small function rooms, maybe even a day care.

Golf will survive despite this drastic market correction, the smaller clubs built back 40+ years with the land and small club house paid for should also make it, some won't, funny most of us probably played or developed our golf game on these older ex farm land courses. The designer, big bucks course and clubs will also make it for obvious reasons. but its the recently built course only clubs at this point semi private, built in the 90s and 200os that have a large mortgage and 20 year business plan based on x number of yearly and seasonal roundsThat are at risk.

Two jobs I wouldn't want today is manager or owner of golf retail or owner manager of a golf course.
post #103 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

 

 

 

Ding, ding, ding......two winners.

 

A small manufacturer often dreams of the volume that Walmart will provide them, but once in, they can no longer support any production volume outside of the enormous demand of Walmart.  Sounds great, until Walmart demands a reduction in price and the producer realizes that they have no leverage to refuse because now, Walmart is their only customer.  Agree and barely break even, or refuse and go out of business. 

 

The moral of the story?  Be careful of what you wish for.....

 

 

 

 

Ah, but tell that to the thousands of middle to low-income families who couldn't otherwise afford some of the products that they sell at discounted prices, or the hundreds of thousands of people that they employ who might otherwise be out of work.

 

The knife cuts both ways....  ;-) 

 

 

Levi jeans is a good example of what wally world can do to a manufacture.

 

As for Dick's, I think some of their troubles stem from poor management, to eager to please stock holders/and or make to much $$$  to fast. Customer service should be your #1 priority, without people you have Nada., 

post #104 of 124

I enjoyed that HBO video. Golf is going to have to appeal to young people, and if Jack Nicklaus is OK with experimenting, then I don't see how anyone else can complain.

 

The game has two things going against it. It's hard and it's expensive. Bottom line. 

 

Let's say I've never played golf in my life. What do I have to spend to give golf a try? I buy a set of clubs for $100 at Walmart. Are they crappy? Sure, but how do I know that? I check the course, let's say it's Crandon on Key Biscayne, for the best rate for a round. I see that as a Miami-Dade County resident, I can play a full round of 18 holes on a weekday for $60. Now I need something to wear. Is this some silly woman's excuse to buy new clothes? I would hardly say it's silly given there is a thread in this very forum suggesting a pop quiz on how you are supposed to act and look and conduct yourself on the golf course before you are allowed to play. So I'll go to Belk and get something suitable for the golf course and it's on sale so I spend $40. So far we're at $200, plus a half day off work, and I still don't have shoes or a glove or tees or balls. All of this just to TRY golf. And when I try it? Well, I get to putt 10 times every hole, lose half my balls in water or trees, give up on holes completely just to maintain pace of play, and end the day sweaty and pissed off. Fun times! 

 

I'm new. If golf disappears it won't be the end of my life. But because my very best friend loves the game, for his sake alone I would hate to see courses continuing to close, thus making the game even more difficult and expensive for those who want to play. So if it takes discount days and 15-in holes to pick up interest, so be it. 

post #105 of 124
I never realized golf was so expensive.

I remember in college golf was $3 for all day on a weekday and $5 all day on a weekend. One weekend I played 63 holes for $5. Shorts and tee shirt probably had holes. I played in tennis shoes, Cokes were 25 cents.
post #106 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by vangator View Post

I never realized golf was so expensive.

I remember in college golf was $3 for all day on a weekday and $5 all day on a weekend. One weekend I played 63 holes for $5. Shorts and tee shirt probably had holes. I played in tennis shoes, Cokes were 25 cents.

I can still play 18 holes for less than $15, 9 holes for under $10, and can buy balls for a buck apiece. Sneakers are fine and who doesn't already own a couple of polo shirts.

Just because some people choose to spend more to play golf, doesn't mean that you have to.
post #107 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

I can still play 18 holes for less than $15, 9 holes for under $10, and can buy balls for a buck apiece. Sneakers are fine and who doesn't already own a couple of polo shirts.

Just because some people choose to spend more to play golf, doesn't mean that you have to.

Is this being posted from 1976? I'm surrounded by the Redneck Riveria and even on courses out in the country with the muscle shirt crowd and spitting tobacco all over the course sets you back $35. It's almost insane what is being charged by courses since thy offer no late afternoon discounts or things like that.
post #108 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by imsys0042 View Post

Is this being posted from 1976? I'm surrounded by the Redneck Riveria and even on courses out in the country with the muscle shirt crowd and spitting tobacco all over the course sets you back $35. It's almost insane what is being charged by courses since thy offer no late afternoon discounts or things like that.

 

There's a course in Erie offering $14 for nine holes.

 

That includes the cart.

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