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When ball on path, can i choose 'nearest point of relief'?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

When the ball is on the center of the cart path, free relief. But can i choose which side to go to? If i choose the right side of the path, my heels will be near  the path. If left, feet far from path, ball nearer to path  but clear. 

 

And what if the ball is sitting on the path, very near the right edge.  Could i cross the path and drop on the left side, assuming no hindrance on right side to prevent drop there?

post #2 of 22

There is only 1 nearest point of relief.

As you are righty your nearest point would most probably be on the left side of the path if ball is in the middle.

 

Note also that you need to take complete relief

 

What you are asking is to use nicest point of relief which is never available.

post #3 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post
 

When the ball is on the center of the cart path, free relief. But can i choose which side to go to? If i choose the right side of the path, my heels will be near  the path. If left, feet far from path, ball nearer to path  but clear. 

 

And what if the ball is sitting on the path, very near the right edge.  Could i cross the path and drop on the left side, assuming no hindrance on right side to prevent drop there?

The NPR is the point where the ball lies nearest to the original point when you take full relief for your lie, stance, and swing.

So if the ball is in the middle of the path, the NPR is always to the left if you are right handed.

If the ball is on the right of the path, the NPR will always be on the right.

If there is a hedge, tree, big drop off, rocks, you name it, at the Nearest Point of Relief, it still is the NPR.  You can't pick the nearest point where you would rather drop it.  That's why I always recommend that you determine the NPR before you lift.  You may find that playing off the cart path doesn't look so bad after all.

post #4 of 22

To help illustrate this, from the USGA.

post #5 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwjmcgrath View Post
 

The NPR is the point where the ball lies nearest to the original point when you take full relief for your lie, stance, and swing.

So if the ball is in the middle of the path, the NPR is always to the left if you are right handed.

If the ball is on the right of the path, the NPR will always be on the right.

If there is a hedge, tree, big drop off, rocks, you name it, at the Nearest Point of Relief, it still is the NPR.  You can't pick the nearest point where you would rather drop it.  That's why I always recommend that you determine the NPR before you lift.  You may find that playing off the cart path doesn't look so bad after all.

I don't believe the highlighted statement is true, assuming that you are saying the ball is on the path, but on the right side of center.  See diagram 2 in the post above.

post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogolf View Post
 

I don't believe the highlighted statement is true, assuming that you are saying the ball is on the path, but on the right side of center.  See diagram 2 in the post above.

 

Diagram 2 says the point of relief is on the left. The only reason i might not be is if the path is wide enough to warrant it being on the right. 

post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwjmcgrath View Post
 

The NPR is the point where the ball lies nearest to the original point when you take full relief for your lie, stance, and swing.

So if the ball is in the middle of the path, the NPR is always to the left if you are right handed.

If the ball is on the right of the path, the NPR will always be on the right.

If there is a hedge, tree, big drop off, rocks, you name it, at the Nearest Point of Relief, it still is the NPR.  You can't pick the nearest point where you would rather drop it.  That's why I always recommend that you determine the NPR before you lift.  You may find that playing off the cart path doesn't look so bad after all.

 

The NPR is always the nearest point. to where the ball lies on the obstruction.  Whether left or right depends on the actual location of the ball, on what the intended club is for the shot, on the width of the cart path... if you see my meaning, there are no absolutes except that the NPR is the closest spot not nearer the hole that the player can obtain complete relief as described in Rule 24.  

 

There are rare occasions where there may be 2 spots which are equidistant from the original spot, but this only occurs if it is impossible to distinguish between them even after measuring.  In 99.99% of cases, there is only one nearest point of relief.

post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post


There are rare occasions where there may be 2 spots which are equidistant from the original spot, but this only occurs if it is impossible to distinguish between them even after measuring.  In 99.99% of cases, there is only one nearest point of relief.

I was wondering about that hypothetical as I was looking at the diagram. In such a very rare and likely hypothetical scenario, do you choose between the two or is there a scheme for resolving between the two NPRs in the rules?
post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkolo View Post


I was wondering about that hypothetical as I was looking at the diagram. In such a very rare and likely hypothetical scenario, do you choose between the two or is there a scheme for resolving between the two NPRs in the rules?

 

Just pick one, and if someone asks then just say you thought it was slightly shorter distance. I mean, unless you pull out the tape measure, just go with your best guess on that one. 

post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

 

Diagram 2 says the point of relief is on the left. The only reason i might not be is if the path is wide enough to warrant it being on the right. 

 

Nice graphic repost btw.  I'd just say that a lot of cart paths are wide enough that if you're on the right side of it your NPR is to the right for most clubs, not the left, even taking stance into account.

post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkolo View Post


I was wondering about that hypothetical as I was looking at the diagram. In such a very rare and likely hypothetical scenario, do you choose between the two or is there a scheme for resolving between the two NPRs in the rules?

 

Just pick one, and if someone asks then just say you thought it was slightly shorter distance. I mean, unless you pull out the tape measure, just go with your best guess on that one. 

 

Actually you will generally measure with a club as carefully as possible if you don't want it questioned.  Even a couple of inches difference can be determined in that way.

post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

Just pick one, and if someone asks then just say you thought it was slightly shorter distance. I mean, unless you pull out the tape measure, just go with your best guess on that one. 

Not really that simple.

Even if you are 300 metres from the green it's usually pretty obvious where the nearest point is, or isn't.

The issue is that a lot of players think they are entitled to the nearest relief with a clear shot.

post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
 

Not really that simple.

Even if you are 300 metres from the green it's usually pretty obvious where the nearest point is, or isn't.

The issue is that a lot of players think they are entitled to the nearest relief with a clear shot.

Yep.

 

I play with a lot of people that just consider being on the cart path as being on the whole cart path without even a consideration of exactly where.  And they'll always pick up and drop on the "course" side of said path too.

post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Yep.

 

I play with a lot of people that just consider being on the cart path as being on the whole cart path without even a consideration of exactly where.  And they'll always pick up and drop on the "course" side of said path too.

One thing I noticed recently at one course is that they tend to line their cart paths with little knee high rope fences that run through wooden posts. When one figures out relief from the cart path, does one need to make sure that stance at the NPR is free from interference with such a fence in order to satisfy the complete relief requirement? Or are you meant to straddle the fence posts or the rope when you figure out NPR from the cart path? In this particular instance, these fences are staked into the grass along the paths about an inch or two away from the path on one or both sides. I assume these qualify as immovable obstructions that you'd get relief from on their own, but I'm curious how that rule interacts with the cart path relief rule in practice.

post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkolo View Post
 

One thing I noticed recently at one course is that they tend to line their cart paths with little knee high rope fences that run through wooden posts. When one figures out relief from the cart path, does one need to make sure that stance at the NPR is free from interference with such a fence in order to satisfy the complete relief requirement? Or are you meant to straddle the fence posts or the rope when you figure out NPR from the cart path? In this particular instance, these fences are staked into the grass along the paths about an inch or two away from the path on one or both sides. I assume these qualify as immovable obstructions that you'd get relief from on their own, but I'm curious how that rule interacts with the cart path relief rule in practice.

 

It depends on the permanence of the fence.  If they're just little wooden stakes pushed in the ground with string between them, then it's a movable obstruction and you ignore the fence and if your NPR is obstructed by it you simply take out the stakes required to remove the obstruction.

 

If it's a more permanent fence that can't be easily unstaked, then it's included in determining the nearest point where you can take a swing with ball, stance, and swing unobstructed.  Though note that obstruction doesn't include possible flight of the ball.  So if NPR puts you on the side of the path away from the fairway but the fence may impede your ball after it's struck (with unobstructed ball, stance, and swing), then that's just too bad.

post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkolo View Post
 

One thing I noticed recently at one course is that they tend to line their cart paths with little knee high rope fences that run through wooden posts. When one figures out relief from the cart path, does one need to make sure that stance at the NPR is free from interference with such a fence in order to satisfy the complete relief requirement? Or are you meant to straddle the fence posts or the rope when you figure out NPR from the cart path? In this particular instance, these fences are staked into the grass along the paths about an inch or two away from the path on one or both sides. I assume these qualify as immovable obstructions that you'd get relief from on their own, but I'm curious how that rule interacts with the cart path relief rule in practice.

Those fences are always movable.  Just pull the two or three nearest posts out of the ground and lay them on the path to make sure the rope is out of your way.

post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Those fences are always movable.  Just pull the two or three nearest posts out of the ground and lay them on the path to make sure the rope is out of your way.

I would actually venture to say that they're immovable. These are 2x2 posts with the ropes going through the center, and I don't believe they're meant to be removed. They're ornamental. Not the typical flimsy ones that you'd find marking a lateral hazard or accompanying a "no carts beyond this point" sign. 

 

In any event, let's say that they're fixed and immovable for the sake of the scenario. 

post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

 

If it's a more permanent fence that can't be easily unstaked, then it's included in determining the nearest point where you can take a swing with ball, stance, and swing unobstructed.  Though note that obstruction doesn't include possible flight of the ball.  So if NPR puts you on the side of the path away from the fairway but the fence may impede your ball after it's struck (with unobstructed ball, stance, and swing), then that's just too bad.

OK, that makes sense. You don't go through the relief process twice, you just treat it as one big obstruction is my understanding then. 

 

Thank you!

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