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Where Would Golf Be........... - Page 2

post #19 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundandFury View Post
 

 How are you going to keep the game going if you never infuse new blood? Old people die, and there are younger people to replace them, they passions and hobbies die with them.  

 

People (particularly women) often pick up the game later in life.  Nobody starts playing in a basketball league at age 55.  But the age of golfers doesn't worry me.  When I was a kid 30 years ago, I remember sports writers talking about baseball's imminent death, because of the ages of fans.  Here we are, a generation later, and MLB is the second richest sports league in the world, not all that far behind the NFL in revenues.

 

The problem private clubs are facing has less to do with golf and more to do with changing socializing patterns.  Couples used to go out for drinks at their club, dinner at their club, parties at the club.  Now, people tend to be more mobile, and socialize with broad groups.  Because of that, membership is less appealing.  

 

Country club food (while improving significantly the past fifteen years) is still old school fine dining.  Foodies like myself don't want to eat that shit.  Herb roasted chicken breast and filet mignon.  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

 

I've seen contraction in the Pittsburgh area.  Some clubs have gone semi-private, one closed entirely, etc.  Lowering fees to join and eliminating bond purchases.  This is just a natural reaction to market forces.  A regression to the mean.  Golf isn't going anywhere and all this hand-wringing over it's future is pointless.

 

And you're right about the equipment manufacturers fueling much of this.  As if it's the sport's job to keep their companies profitable.  Hey, cut costs and put out a better product like every other industry you goddamn clowns.

post #20 of 48
I have to rant.

how do people try to say golf was for the rich and go on to say they played football? I think it was more a matter of choice?

I spent as much or more on my sons jr football vs his golf. plus with football was much more travel. who knows all sports could be for the rich unless you are handed a meal ticket, or you are super talented?

I know people that have mortgaged their houses just to have their child to become a tv dancer.

it's what you invest your time on. ?

as for tiger he is/was trained to play golf (his dad set it to him), I'm sure he's done as much as jack, Arnold, Norman, hmm wie she did something, for the game just at a different time, I would bet that Rory guy has a handful of fans 😄.

I wonder what the movie tin cup did for the golf world ? I remember when that movie came out and everyoneI had a 7 iron lol

I'm sure tiger did bring up ratings and people wanting to be like him, (and still brings ratings). but I also think that the people that wanted to be like him now have children of their own don't find interest in golf unless their child is playing, I'm sure the majority of kids these days are playing football or soccer even baseball.

golf has squeezed all it could out of its third golden goose and everyone (media driven) acts like it's over, I think it is just a cycle. man I can remember in my area this guy named Jordan had every kid or grow up playing basketball.

business is a game of timing, mix it with tiger woods you have a money maker! mix it with jorden same, mix it with Brady same, rg3 sells, tommy 2 gloves sells, how about that guy that could hit the ball a mile? daily? maybe golf needs more daily? a player with negative press, I can remember the days of daily and how he was going to own the PGA.

there may never be another tiger, I haven't seen another Palmer yet. but there will be someone else.

I'm sorry I have gone off topic. I'm getting tired of reading/hearing how golf is dead because of TIGER. imop if you like the game or play the game stop trying to make it negative.

I appreciate my golf teacher but I would be pissed he got fired because tiger quit golf. but then again if I wanted to be like tiger I wouldn't be here. I would be working on my game and my opinion on this post where would golf be?

worse, better, nobody knows?

if your on this forum this is our game!
post #21 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguirre View Post

People (particularly women) often pick up the game later in life.  Nobody starts playing in a basketball league at age 55.  But the age of golfers doesn't worry me.  When I was a kid 30 years ago, I remember sports writers talking about baseball's imminent death, because of the ages of fans.  Here we are, a generation later, and MLB is the second richest sports league in the world, not all that far behind the NFL in revenues.

The problem private clubs are facing has less to do with golf and more to do with changing socializing patterns.  Couples used to go out for drinks at their club, dinner at their club, parties at the club.  Now, people tend to be more mobile, and socialize with broad groups.  Because of that, membership is less appealing.  

Country club food (while improving significantly the past fifteen years) is still old school fine dining.  Foodies like myself don't want to eat that shit.  Herb roasted chicken breast and filet mignon.  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

I've seen contraction in the Pittsburgh area.  Some clubs have gone semi-private, one closed entirely, etc.  Lowering fees to join and eliminating bond purchases.  This is just a natural reaction to market forces.  A regression to the mean.  Golf isn't going anywhere and all this hand-wringing over it's future is pointless.

And you're right about the equipment manufacturers fueling much of this.  As if it's the sport's job to keep their companies profitable.  Hey, cut costs and put out a better product like every other industry you goddamn clowns.


You are quite right about patterns at private club. Notably the food, at least around here in Pittsburgh. The food at my club is horrible. Unless it's a holiday brunch, I won't eat there anymore.
post #22 of 48

we wouldn't know.

 

It's that simple. 

 

Where would we be without computers and cell phones? We didn't care because we never had them before we did.

post #23 of 48

As in any competitive sport, Tiger set a standard for other golfers. 

post #24 of 48

All I can say is that I've never met a person who says they got onto the game because of Tiger.  Even those who started playing during Tiger's prime did so because a friend or family member invited them to give it  a try, not because they got all excited about the game from watching pro golf on TV.  

 

The idea that part of the game's trouble is related to all of us old baby boomers starting to die off is just another myth.  And I can assure that very few of us got into the game because of Tiger.  Most started playing long before anyone ever heard of him, and his troubles have nothing to do with any of us cutting back on our play.  Physical issues and fixed income are the big factors there.

post #25 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
 

We all know what Tiger Woods has done for the game of golf. Mostly positive, with some negatives thrown in there too. However, what if there had never been a Tiger Woods where would golf be right now?  How would some of the great players over the past 20 years impacted the game?  

Great questions.

 

How would some of the great players over the past 20 years impacted the game? With players like Norman, Faldo, Watson, Kite, Langer, Couples, et al, I think the state of golf would be just fine.

 

However, what if there had never been a Tiger Woods where would golf be right now? Tough to predict. It's like saying, "What would the world be like if Barack Obama hadn't been elected President?"

post #26 of 48

Tiger provided the prototype for the 21st Century pro golfer.

 

He leads the all-time pro money list, with total earnings north of $109 million. He finished #1 on the PGA money list in 10 of his 19 years on the pro tour. This includes streaks of four straight seasons 1999-2002, and three straight 2005-2007.

 

Tiger solidified the norm of the "golfer as athlete".

 

He broadened the appeal of golf, but few other African American golfers have followed him onto the PGA tour. Tiger's injuries and family problems, coinciding with the Recession, have blunted his continuing impact. But, "junior Tigers" such as Rory McIlroy, Bubba Watson and Ryan Palmer have picked up the slack with in-season streaks of their own. 

post #27 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

All I can say is that I've never met a person who says they got onto the game because of Tiger.  Even those who started playing during Tiger's prime did so because a friend or family member invited them to give it  a try, not because they got all excited about the game from watching pro golf on TV.

 

The idea that part of the game's trouble is related to all of us old baby boomers starting to die off is just another myth.  And I can assure that very few of us got into the game because of Tiger.  Most started playing long before anyone ever heard of him, and his troubles have nothing to do with any of us cutting back on our play.  Physical issues and fixed income are the big factors there.

I started watching golf because of Tiger and Phil.  Had I not started watching it, I would have never been interested enough to try to play it, no less commit the time and money I have into getting good at it. 

post #28 of 48

 

Duh!

post #29 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

I don't know that it's been proven that Tiger was responsible for much of anything.

 

He may have just happened to come along at a time when golf was going to boom regardless. Minorities still don't play a lot more golf. I read a few articles a few years ago that talked about how, due to the boom in the economy and so on, golf would have boomed along with it whether Tiger had existed or not.

 

So golf might be exactly where it is now.


I'm inclined to go with this.

 

I think, that for the most part, Tiger came along at the right time. I think he added to the popularity of the sport, helped to grow it, and made it interesting, but he isn't THE reason for golf's boom. Had there been no Tiger, somebody else could have become the superstar of golf; how many of Tigers 14 majors would be Phil's instead or somebody else?

post #30 of 48

The only thing I know for sure about "What if there had been no Tiger" is that Phil's golf record would be a lot better.

post #31 of 48

I have never been a fan of Tiger but I will give him credit. I believe he was a major factor in golfs popularity in the mid/late 90's. $250 million to play for nike, paid to play certain tournaments. Fans moving hazards for him! Yes I believe golf may have had a few others to step into his role however none that would have done it as well as Tiger. Just like Jordan in basketball or Gretzky in hockey. Yes there was greats before them and even after but what they did for the sport (just like Tiger) lasts for many many years after they are gone from the game. 

post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

I don't know that it's been proven that Tiger was responsible for much of anything.

 

He may have just happened to come along at a time when golf was going to boom regardless. Minorities still don't play a lot more golf. I read a few articles a few years ago that talked about how, due to the boom in the economy and so on, golf would have boomed along with it whether Tiger had existed or not.

 

So golf might be exactly where it is now.

 

I suppose if you don't count Asians as a minority, then that's probably true.

 

In So. Cal. there is a boom of Asian parents putting their kids into all sorts of golf programs. Thousands of kids are taking lessons at just three courses. I am guessing it's because of many kids getting scholarships to nice Universities, and even helps them get their foot into the door to these "Ivy League" schools. Most parents I talk to also feel that it is not a stressful sport, and would not interfere with their studies. :whistle:

 

So, I think there will be a revised boom in another decade or less when more of these kids grow up and start playing casually with friends. Plus, the economy is due for another up cycle in that time frame.

post #33 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

I suppose if you don't count Asians as a minority, then that's probably true.

 

The topic is where would golf be because of Tiger. Tiger's popularity has not been very high since about 2009 or so, and so attributing a small uptick in Asian participation in the past few years to Tiger Woods is a non-starter.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

In So. Cal. there is a boom of Asian parents putting their kids into all sorts of golf programs. Thousands of kids are taking lessons at just three courses. I am guessing it's because of many kids getting scholarships to nice Universities, and even helps them get their foot into the door to these "Ivy League" schools. Most parents I talk to also feel that it is not a stressful sport, and would not interfere with their studies. :whistle:

 

You seem to be guilty, fairly frequently, of applying something happening locally and assuming it's similar across the country. They're more likely only relevant to your market. Erie doesn't have a lot of Asian individuals, but those that we do have don't appear to be playing more or less golf than they did before. Same is true of other minorities. They're probably playing less, because many of the minorities we have are in the lower-middle class or thereabouts and the depressed economy has affected them a little more than others.

 

But again, @Lihu, the topic is how it relates to Tiger…

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
 

However, what if there had never been a Tiger Woods. Where would golf be right now?

post #34 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

The topic is where would golf be because of Tiger. Tiger's popularity has not been very high since about 2009 or so, and so attributing a small uptick in Asian participation in the past few years to Tiger Woods is a non-starter.


You seem to be guilty, fairly frequently, of applying something happening locally and assuming it's similar across the country. They're more likely only relevant to your market. Erie doesn't have a lot of Asian individuals, but those that we do have don't appear to be playing more or less golf than they did before. Same is true of other minorities. They're probably playing less, because many of the minorities we have are in the lower-middle class or thereabouts and the depressed economy has affected them a little more than others.

But again, @Lihu
, the topic is how it relates to Tiger…

I didn't apply it to the rest of the country, but I would say that a large percentage of golfers in the country are down here.

Tiger is half Asian, and many Asians started golfing because of him.

Like other minorities, Asians thought of golf as non-minority friendly prior to Tiger. He really broke a lot of barriers.

If Tiger weren't in the scene, golfers like Phil and Ernie would have been the dominant golfers of the time. To be honest, not many minorities relate to them.
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

I didn't apply it to the rest of the country, but I would say that a large percentage of golfers in the country are down here.

 

You and I may have different definitions of "large percentage." I'd guess, what, 2-3% of golfers are in Southern California?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

Tiger is half Asian, and many Asians started golfing because of him.

 

Is that just what you think? Or do you have solid evidence/proof of it?

 

Everything I've read says there are not a lot more black people playing golf now than in 1995, and though Tiger IS half Thai, he's seen as "black" more than anything.

post #36 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

You and I may have different definitions of "large percentage." I'd guess, what, 2-3% of golfers are in Southern California?

 

 

Is that just what you think? Or do you have solid evidence/proof of it?

 

Everything I've read says there are not a lot more black people playing golf now than in 1995, and though Tiger IS half Thai, he's seen as "black" more than anything.

I have to agree with Erik here, I've never heard anyone mention that Tiger is half Asian / Thai.  Just as Barack Obama is deemed the first black President even though he's only half black.

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