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Chella Choi Cheating. What is the LPGA doing about it? - Page 10

post #163 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post

That's why I would like to hear what she has to say about it. I'm 99.999% sure that nothing she says would change my opinion about it but it would be interesting to hear her fumble around for a plausible explanation.
I think the best thing she could do is to come out, admit she did something wrong, and apologize. Some people are still going to call her a cheat, but it will be easier to forgive her actions if she accepts she was wrong.
post #164 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post


Some behaviors defy logic. What matters is that she did it and it seems like it will go unpunished. That definitely sends the wrong message.

 

This is not really going unpunished. There will always be some question in future rulings involving her.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post

Playing devils advocate ... in the odd case that she actually didn't do it on purpose, maybe she just has a temper and was PISSED, which is why she did what she did. That's the only excuse I can think of as to why she WD - she probably said to herself f*** this, I'm outa here. Just a guess ...

 

More or less my thoughts. Alternatively, she could have possibly over reacted and WD (maybe punishing herself?), instead of simply taking a 2 shot penalty. Could be embarrassment too? Who knows.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

That's why I would like to hear what she has to say about it. I'm 99.999% sure that nothing she says would change my opinion about it but it would be interesting to hear her fumble around for a plausible explanation.

 

It would be interesting, but like you stated nothing will really change my mind either. If she plays the game, she needs to learn to abide by the rules. No more and no less.

post #165 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

This is not really going unpunished. There will always be some question in future rulings involving her.

That's not punishment. Simply a consequence of human nature to having been found out.
post #166 of 305

Didn't the rules change (or does it take effect next year?) so that if it is un-perceptible to a player, a viewer watching HD tv can't call in for violation?

 

If the rule is in effect, and Choi (for some reason was pissed as someone said and did not notice she placed it incorrectly) did not realized she incorrectly replaced the ball, and then had a viewer call in and be assessed 2 stroke penalty, she could possible got more angry for having the rule not enforced properly and withdrew.

 

Just my 2 cents

post #167 of 305
Can any Koreans here shed light on any cultural aspects of this? I could be wrong, but when she withdrew, I took that as a sign of shame. Clearly she committed the infraction, and when she realized that she was caught, she may have thought the notoriety of a DQ or a penalty to miss the cut was too much to bear, and her best option was to have it appear as a WD. I have no idea what I'm talking about frankly (although I lived as a child in Seoul for 4 years), but it's an aspect that maybe someone from Korea might shed some light on culturally. I believe I've read before that rules are taken very very seriously there. That wouldn't explain why she did what she did in the first place, but perhaps her strange denial and WD.
post #168 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukari View Post
 

Didn't the rules change (or does it take effect next year?) so that if it is un-perceptible to a player, a viewer watching HD tv can't call in for violation?

 

If the rule is in effect, and Choi (for some reason was pissed as someone said and did not notice she placed it incorrectly) did not realized she incorrectly replaced the ball, and then had a viewer call in and be assessed 2 stroke penalty, she could possible got more angry for having the rule not enforced properly and withdrew.

 

Just my 2 cents

Not applicable.  It's not something that you need HD video to see.  She moved the ball at least an inch, and it's really, really hard to come up with a plausible scenario that would explain that it wasn't deliberate.

 

Also, not sure if that rule is just for the PGA tour either.  But, again, it's not remotely applicable here.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallT View Post

Can any Koreans here shed light on any cultural aspects of this? I could be wrong, but when she withdrew, I took that as a sign of shame. Clearly she committed the infraction, and when she realized that she was caught, she may have thought the notoriety of a DQ or a penalty to miss the cut was too much to bear, and her best option was to have it appear as a WD. I have no idea what I'm talking about frankly (although I lived as a child in Seoul for 4 years), but it's an aspect that maybe someone from Korea might shed some light on culturally. I believe I've read before that rules are taken very very seriously there. That wouldn't explain why she did what she did in the first place, but perhaps her strange denial and WD.

Interesting angle ... I have no idea.  I'd only counter that I would think if it was to do with shame, the story wouldn't include the line "she refused to accept the penalty."

post #169 of 305
Thread Starter 

She is playing today, (in the following tournament) so I doubt that there is much shame on her part.

Surely the LPGA is doing something!

post #170 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
 

She is playing today, (in the following tournament) so I doubt that there is much shame on her part.

No, but it is awfully shameful on the LPGA's part.

 

Hopefully somebody asks her about it today.  And hopefully she answers with something more substantial than "I just want to put it behind me and move forward."

post #171 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallT View Post

Can any Koreans here shed light on any cultural aspects of this? I could be wrong, but when she withdrew, I took that as a sign of shame. Clearly she committed the infraction, and when she realized that she was caught, she may have thought the notoriety of a DQ or a penalty to miss the cut was too much to bear, and her best option was to have it appear as a WD. I have no idea what I'm talking about frankly (although I lived as a child in Seoul for 4 years), but it's an aspect that maybe someone from Korea might shed some light on culturally. I believe I've read before that rules are taken very very seriously there. That wouldn't explain why she did what she did in the first place, but perhaps her strange denial and WD.

 

Today (of all days, of course) I was partnered with an older lady coincidentally last name "Choi", and she was very strict about the rules. Boy was she strict. She even said gravity can incur a penalty. "Anything on the green is serious stuff". She did not know anything about this incident, but is pretty serious about the rules.

 

I've seen this in other Asian societies, but, again, if Chella plays the game, she needs to adapt her thinking to this game. She needs to follow the rules and nothing more or less. Meaning that she should not overreact to the "shame" of having done something utterly stupid. She should just roll with the punches as is expected in western society since golf was developed in a western society with rules that are based upon these value systems.

 

In her case, I think she really did have a brain fart. It doesn't matter whether it was a decision to "cheat" where there was no gain, or if she really did put it back in the wrong position by accident.

 

To us, all she needed to do was simply take the two strokes and called it a day, but the ramifications in Korea? IDK. My guess is they're pretty strict. I've witnessed some serious moments during some Archery tournaments between coach and archer (Archery is Korea's other national sport).


Edited by Lihu - 8/28/14 at 4:50pm
post #172 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

 

In her case, I think she really did have a brain fart. 

No offense Lihu, but I can't believe people are thinking this may have been a "brain fart". I mean really, she picks her ball up and moves it an inch over. She doesn't clean the ball, she doesn't fiddle with the line on the ball, she doesn't even step back to look at her line, she just picks it up and moves it to a another (presumable better) spot. No way I'm buying brain fart. Massive, explosive, ass-ripping, diarrhetic brain dump maybe, but that ain't no fart.

post #173 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

No offense Lihu, but I can't believe people are thinking this may have been a "brain fart". I mean really, she picks her ball up and moves it an inch over. She doesn't clean the ball, she doesn't fiddle with the line on the ball, she doesn't even step back to look at her line, she just picks it up and moves it to a another (presumable better) spot. No way I'm buying brain fart. Massive, explosive, ass-ripping, diarrhetic brain dump maybe, but that ain't no fart.

 

I see your point, but I also defined "brain fart" as the intention of cheating (even though it was totally stupid, thus a brain fart), or accidental (which I know most people are not convinced).

post #174 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
 

No, they get Aguirre to let everybody off. He'll buy any excuse no matter how lame or dishonest. Cheating will become a thing of the past with no stigma attached to it.

 

Not exactly the Aguirre in the film, are you, Aguirre?  You're a pushover.

 

Dayam, I'm gonna need some salve for all these sick burns.

post #175 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

I see your point, but I also defined "brain fart" as the intention of cheating (even though it was totally stupid, thus a brain fart), or accidental (which I know most people are not convinced).

Intent is irrelevant. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she did not intend to cheat and merely accidentally replaced her ball in the wrong spot. It's still a 2-stroke penalty. She can't refuse to accept the penalty based on her intentions.

 

No matter the circumstances, she is still in the wrong for refusing to accept the penalty.

post #176 of 305

I don't know. Isn't the WD kind of like falling on your sword? She's dead for the tournament either way. Did the technicality of the WD somehow prevent her from potential further consequences?

 

If I missed the answer to my question in the earlier posts, my apologies.

post #177 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanadiens View Post
 

I don't know. Isn't the WD kind of like falling on your sword? She's dead for the tournament either way. Did the technicality of the WD somehow prevent her from potential further consequences?

 

If I missed the answer to my question in the earlier posts, my apologies.

I don't consider it falling on her sword, I view it as she refused to accept the penalty and quit.  WD has much less of a stigma than DQ.

post #178 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

No, but it is awfully shameful on the LPGA's part.

 

 

 

I absolutely agree.  Their failure to take action is tacit approval.  Surely they understand that.....  :blink:

post #179 of 305

In my view, Chella deliberately places the mark well to the left of the ball and then proceeds to replace the ball well left of where the mark was, effectively moving the ball about an inch and a half.

 

This was clearly a deliberate and premeditated action and it's cheating.

 

The LPGA should make it clear that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated in the future.


Edited by arturo28mx - 8/29/14 at 12:03pm
post #180 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanadiens View Post
 

I don't know. Isn't the WD kind of like falling on your sword? She's dead for the tournament either way. Did the technicality of the WD somehow prevent her from potential further consequences?

 

If I missed the answer to my question in the earlier posts, my apologies.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I don't consider it falling on her sword, I view it as she refused to accept the penalty and quit.  WD has much less of a stigma than DQ.

That's how I viewed it as well.  I think that's how a lot of us viewed it.  However, now I'm not so sure.  I've been thinking about it some more and have some questions.  First of all, DQ isn't in the equation.  (Many of us here believe she deserved a DQ, but that was never presented as an option)  The penalty was simply going to be 2 strokes.  Two strokes that happen to cause her to miss the cut, but still, only two strokes.  You would have to agree that unless we're talking about Tiger Woods in the middle of a ridiculous made cuts streak, that a WD carries a lot bigger "stigma" than a missed cut, right?

 

Now, do we even know what the timeline was?  For example, when did her round finish relative to the rest of the field?  If she was earlier in the day, she probably would have very little idea how the penalty would have affected her chances of making the cut, so that may not have had anything to do with it either (I suggested it did in one of my first posts).

 

Now, lastly, and this is the most important part ... how do we know exactly what the guy meant when he said she "refused to accept the penalty?"  Again, our first reaction - mine especially - was to assume she was being defiant.  Like the proverbial exchange between the boss and the employee on many a TV show ... "You're fired!"  "Oh yeah??  Well, you can't fire me because I quit!!"

 

All the article I linked said was:

Quote:
TSN reported that Choi was taken to the TV compound to view a replay of the improper mark. The network reported that Choi “refused to accept” the two-shot penalty and did not sign her scorecard, choosing to withdraw, instead.

Perhaps it could have been a "refused to accept" in the same way somebody reacts when given a gift that is too valuable.  Not defiance, but more like a guilty refusal?

 

All I'm saying is that short of hearing more directly from her or a longer explanation from the guys in the tent with her, I feel like this is certainly plausible.

 

Of course, that said ... it takes nothing away from the fact that she blatantly cheated and SHOULD have been DQ'd and suspended.  I'm just talking about the different possible scenarios regarding the reactions.

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