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Brandel at it again

post #1 of 86
Thread Starter 

Marginal Tour Player is world's leading expert on how to fix the best player of this generation's swing.

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/brandel-chamblee/pursuit-perfection-leaves-tigers-swing-disarray/

 

Quote:
 

In Tiger Woods’ 2001 book “How I Play Golf” he said, “There is no guess work involved in my swing now – when I hit a bad shot, my understanding of cause and effect enables me to pinpoint the reason immediately.”

The roots of that swing were of his conception. After his victory at the 1997 Masters, Tiger watched the tape of that historic blowout start to finish, alone. Expecting to see perfection in his method, he mostly saw flaws.

By his count there were at least 10 things that he didn't like, so he called Butch Harmon, who agreed with Tiger’s assessment and the two of them went to work. Within a year, the swing that would go on to win four consecutive majors was his. He owned it. He wrote a book about it.

What has happened in the last few years has defied all reason. Both his body and his swing have become so altered from that architecture, and he seems so orphaned from the intuition that led to that swing, that he is scarcely recognizable.

This would be like having Mark Sanchez comment on how to fix Peyton Manning's mechanics.

post #2 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Marginal Tour Player is world's leading expert on how to fix the best player of this generation's swing.

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/brandel-chamblee/pursuit-perfection-leaves-tigers-swing-disarray/

 

This would be like having Mark Sanchez comment on how to fix Peyton Manning's mechanics.

 



Really? You think there's a direct correlation between your level as a tour pro and your ability to assess someones swing mechanics? If that's the case why do tour pros pay people like Butch Harman, Hank Haney, Sean Foley..etc. to do just that. Those guys aren't even good enough golfers to be "marginal" tour players.
post #3 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb72 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

Marginal Tour Player is world's leading expert on how to fix the best player of this generation's swing.

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/brandel-chamblee/pursuit-perfection-leaves-tigers-swing-disarray/

 

This would be like having Mark Sanchez comment on how to fix Peyton Manning's mechanics.

 



Really? You think there's a direct correlation between your level as a tour pro and your ability to assess someones swing mechanics? If that's the case why do tour pros pay people like Butch Harman, Hank Haney, Sean Foley..etc. to do just that. Those guys aren't even good enough golfers to be "marginal" tour players.

If Mark Sanchez or Ryan Leaf or Rick Mirer wrote and article about fixing Manning's mechanics, would you read it?  Would you accept anything they said?  I don't think it matters that you played tour golf.  Harman, Haney, Foley have studied and became experts on golf instruction.  Chamblee only studied criticizing Woods and how to style his hair.  He contradicts himself numerous times and shows only marginal knowledge in my opinion.

post #4 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Marginal Tour Player is world's leading expert on how to fix the best player of this generation's swing.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/brandel-chamblee/pursuit-perfection-leaves-tigers-swing-disarray/

This would be like having Mark Sanchez comment on how to fix Peyton Manning's mechanics.
That last paragraph of Chamblee's is ridiculous. I wonder if he keeps a thesaurus next to the shitter.
post #5 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb72 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Marginal Tour Player is world's leading expert on how to fix the best player of this generation's swing.

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/brandel-chamblee/pursuit-perfection-leaves-tigers-swing-disarray/

 

This would be like having Mark Sanchez comment on how to fix Peyton Manning's mechanics.

 



Really? You think there's a direct correlation between your level as a tour pro and your ability to assess someones swing mechanics? If that's the case why do tour pros pay people like Butch Harman, Hank Haney, Sean Foley..etc. to do just that. Those guys aren't even good enough golfers to be "marginal" tour players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

If Mark Sanchez or Ryan Leaf or Rick Mirer wrote and article about fixing Manning's mechanics, would you read it?  Would you accept anything they said?  I don't think it matters that you played tour golf.  Harman, Haney, Foley have studied and became experts on golf instruction.  Chamblee only studied criticizing Woods and how to style his hair.  He contradicts himself numerous times and shows only marginal knowledge in my opinion.
Who is this Harman chap?

I believe Butch Harmon has the same marginal tour player record as Brandel.
post #6 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

If Mark Sanchez or Ryan Leaf or Rick Mirer wrote and article about fixing Manning's mechanics, would you read it?  Would you accept anything they said?  I don't think it matters that you played tour golf.  Harman, Haney, Foley have studied and became experts on golf instruction.  Chamblee only studied criticizing Woods and how to style his hair.  He contradicts himself numerous times and shows only marginal knowledge in my opinion.

 



Why would I NOT accept anything that they said? They have played the position at the highest level and they would know alot more about Peyton Mannings mechanics than you or I do.Just as I'm sure that there are many (highly successful) quaterback coaches and pitching coaches and hitting coaches that never played at the level of the players that they're coaching. Just because Chamblee is not a swing coach doesn't mean he couldn't be. What are your credentials that alow you to critique his assessment?
post #7 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post





Who is this Harman chap?



I believe Butch Harmon has the same marginal tour player record as Brandel.

 



Ok, so I spelled his name wrong. But your making the argument that Harmon having the SAME playing ability as Chamblee makes your point? I don't think so.
post #8 of 86
I disagree with the notion that Chamblee isn't a qualified swing analyst because he was a marginal tour player. He isn't a qualified swing analyst because he doesn't know and refuses to learn simple facts about the golf swing and physics.

Tiger has mechanical problems. He needs to work on that. I'm a little tired of all this "Tiger just needs to be Tiger" mental approach stuff, as if he just needs to think like a major winner and he's going to start winning majors again.
post #9 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb72 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post





Who is this Harman chap?



I believe Butch Harmon has the same marginal tour player record as Brandel.

 



Ok, so I spelled his name wrong. But your making the argument that Harmon having the SAME playing ability as Chamblee makes your point? I don't think so.
Chillax amigo. I don't have a point other that to point out that Harmon did indeed play at that level and actually has the same record as Brandel.

Why are you so combative?
post #10 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb72 View Post
 
 
Really? You think there's a direct correlation between your level as a tour pro and your ability to assess someones swing mechanics? If that's the case why do tour pros pay people like Butch Harman, Hank Haney, Sean Foley..etc. to do just that. Those guys aren't even good enough golfers to be "marginal" tour players.

 

Harmon was a PGA tour professional with 1 win. Chamblee was a PGA tour professional with 2 wins. So yes Harmon, who is by some considered the best golf instructor, was a marginal tour player at best. 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

I disagree with the notion that Chamblee isn't a qualified swing analyst because he was a marginal tour player. He isn't a qualified swing analyst because he doesn't know and refuses to learn simple facts about the golf swing and physics.

Tiger has mechanical problems. He needs to work on that. I'm a little tired of all this "Tiger just needs to be Tiger" mental approach stuff, as if he just needs to think like a major winner and he's going to start winning majors again.

 

 

Exactly. You can sit there and say, "That's wrong" to a lot of stuff Chamblee says. 

post #11 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

Harmon was a PGA tour professional with 1 win. Chamblee was a PGA tour professional with 2 wins. So yes Harmon, who is by some considered the best golf instructor, was a marginal tour player at best. 






Exactly. You can sit there and say, "That's wrong" to a lot of stuff Chamblee says. 
I stand corrected, I thought Shampoo only had 1 win.
post #12 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post


I stand corrected, I thought Shampoo only had 1 win.

 

Well you can read my statement as, 2 PGA tour wins, or a PGA Tour professional who has 2 wins. A slight difference. Because Chamblee has 1 PGA Tour win and 1 Nationwide Tour win. Both are considered a professional win. :whistle:

post #13 of 86

Can the thread title on this be changed to:

"Those who can do, those who can't teach, those who can't teach commentate, those who can't commentate post on message boards"

post #14 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

He (Chamblee) isn't a qualified swing analyst because he doesn't know and refuses to learn simple facts about the golf swing and physics.

Tiger has mechanical problems. He needs to work on that.

 

 

Pretty amazing that Chamblee won twice on the tour before ever learning anything about the golf swing.  

post #15 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post


Pretty amazing that Chamblee won twice on the tour before ever learning anything about the golf swing.  
You're clearly being facetious, but it's a sport. You don't need to understand biomechanics and physics to do it well.
post #16 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post
 

Pretty amazing that Chamblee won twice on the tour before ever learning anything about the golf swing.  

 

Executing a golf swing and teaching someone else to swing a club are two very different things.

 

  • David Leadbetter
  • Jimmy Ballard
  • Hank Haney
  • Sean Foley
  • Mike Bennett/Andy Plummer
  • Mac O'Grady
  • Chuck Cook
  • Butch Harmon
  • Todd Anderson
  • Chuck Evans
  • Mike Adams
  • Mike Bender
  • etc.

 

How many PGA Tour wins among them? How many majors? It goes both ways.

 

I prefer that it not; I base my opinion on an instructor on how well he gives instruction, not a PGA Tour career (or his lack of one).

post #17 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post



Chillax amigo. I don't have a point other that to point out that Harmon did indeed play at that level and actually has the same record as Brandel.



Why are you so combative?

 



Not being "combative" at all. Why did you feel the need to correct my spelling? Do you correct everyone's spelling? If you do you must have ALOT of time on your hands. I'm only pointing out that pointing out Harmons's equally marginal playing ability only supports the fact that you don't have to be a great player to be a competant swing analyst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally Fairway View Post

Can the thread title on this be changed to:



"Those who can do, those who can't teach, those who can't teach commentate, those who can't commentate post on message boards"

 



This
post #18 of 86

I think what Chamblee is saying is "Tiger must own his swing;" a teacher helps find what the student wants, but the teacher is not a crutch; the student must have swag; and Tiger can't be contorted into positions that a Trackman commands.

 

 

As to the swing, Tiger went to a center pivot for a reason -- I think the goal was to save his body for the long haul. It's possible Sean and/or Tiger did not quite understand the patterns and movement needed to execute that goal, and for Tiger to execute a consistent, quality swing.

 

With the result, I wonder, if Tiger feels lost at the moment and without confidence -- no swag. And that is probably why Foley is no longer Tiger's guru. Confidence lost.

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