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Brandel at it again - Page 2

post #19 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb72 View Post
 
Not being "combative" at all. Why did you feel the need to correct my spelling? Do you correct everyone's spelling? If you do you must have ALOT of time on your hands. I'm only pointing out that pointing out Harmons's equally marginal playing ability only supports the fact that you don't have to be a great player to be a competant swing analyst.

I was teasing both you and @boogielicious because you both called him Harman, relax. 

post #20 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

I think what Chamblee is saying is "Tiger must own his swing;" a teacher helps find what the student wants, but the teacher is not a crutch; the student must have swag; and Tiger can't be contorted into positions that a Trackman commands.

 

 

As to the swing, Tiger went to a center pivot for a reason -- I think the goal was to save his body for the long haul. It's possible Sean and/or Tiger did not quite understand the patterns and movement needed to execute that goal, and for Tiger to execute a consistent, quality swing.

 

With the result, I wonder, if Tiger feels lost at the moment and without confidence -- no swag. And that is probably why Foley is no longer Tiger's guru. Confidence lost.

 

 

Maybe Tiger feels like he knows his swing is were he wants it, he just needs to take it to the course. I mean, the swing in the video @mvmac posted looks REALLY good! That is not the swing he takes to the course 100% of the time. 

 

I think dropping Foley is Tiger's way of getting away from all the technical side of things. 

post #21 of 86

He's still not recovered from the injury. I'll hold off the review until he's healthy and has gotten more practice in. December or next year.

post #22 of 86

While Tiger is rehabing his back he should do golf commentary opposite Chamblee!! :-P

post #23 of 86

Guys, keep it to topic please. If you want to talk about grammar or something, I think we got a thread for that.

post #24 of 86
My issue with Chamblee is that he comes off so condescending. It's always he's right and everyone else is stupid for not falling in line with him. If he softened his approach a bit his message would be received a little better I think. You can have all the valid points in the world but sometimes your delivery can F it all up.

A while ago I compared Chamblee to Skip Bayless. These days Chamblee is worse than Bayless and that’s no easy task!
post #25 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonTheSavage View Post

My issue with Chamblee is that he comes off so condescending. It's always he's right and everyone else is stupid for not falling in line with him. If he softened his approach a bit his message would be received a little better I think. You can have all the valid points in the world but sometimes your delivery can F it all up.

A while ago I compared Chamblee to Skip Bayless. These days Chamblee is worse than Bayless and that’s no easy task!

Bayless accused Troy Aikman of being gay, because he was not married during most of his career.

 

Nothing Brandel has done can top that...

 

Of course, we saw what marriage did to Tiger...

post #26 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

Bayless accused Troy Aikman of being gay, because he was not married during most of his career.

 

Nothing Brandel has done can top that...

 

Of course, we saw what marriage did to Tiger...

That's gonna be hard to top.:-O

post #27 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

If Mark Sanchez or Ryan Leaf or Rick Mirer wrote and article about fixing Manning's mechanics, would you read it?  Would you accept anything they said?  I don't think it matters that you played tour golf.  Harman, Haney, Foley have studied and became experts on golf instruction.  Chamblee only studied criticizing Woods and how to style his hair.  He contradicts himself numerous times and shows only marginal knowledge in my opinion.

 

Its been said, but I think it bears repeating because these discussions so often devolve into the "chamblee should shut up because he wasn't very good" vs "you don't have to be good to teach debate."  @boogielicious and others here made an important, and perhaps new point--that although bad players can be good teachers (or analysts), but that doesn't mean that bad players are good teachers.  Someone can show that they are knowledgeable in a number of ways, primarily by demonstrating their own application of their knowledge, applying that knowledge through others by teaching players who go on to success, or providing analysis that demonstrates their knowledge.  In the opinion of many, Chamblee hasn't done any of those things.  

post #28 of 86

Bayless is far worse than Chamblee, and it's really not even close

 

I completely understand how Chamblee can rub some people the wrong way but I think most of the criticism he gets on here is a function of him being critical of the game's most popular figure more so than people actually doubting his knowledge base. As an indifferent Tiger-observer, I think Chamblee's assessment is as good as anyone else's I've heard...I just think people have a  hard time with their golden boy's swing being criticized at all so they'd rather just dismiss him as some bitter underachiever.

post #29 of 86

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

Marginal Tour Player is world's leading expert on how to fix the best player of this generation's swing.

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/brandel-chamblee/pursuit-perfection-leaves-tigers-swing-disarray/

 

Quote:

In Tiger Woods’ 2001 book “How I Play Golf” he said, “There is no guess work involved in my swing now – when I hit a bad shot, my understanding of cause and effect enables me to pinpoint the reason immediately.”

The roots of that swing were of his conception. After his victory at the 1997 Masters, Tiger watched the tape of that historic blowout start to finish, alone. Expecting to see perfection in his method, he mostly saw flaws.

By his count there were at least 10 things that he didn't like, so he called Butch Harmon, who agreed with Tiger’s assessment and the two of them went to work. Within a year, the swing that would go on to win four consecutive majors was his. He owned it. He wrote a book about it.

What has happened in the last few years has defied all reason. Both his body and his swing have become so altered from that architecture, and he seems so orphaned from the intuition that led to that swing, that he is scarcely recognizable.

 

This would be like having Mark Sanchez comment on how to fix Peyton Manning's mechanics.

 

What does playing ability have to do with it? I'm sure Chamblee is a better golfer than Sean Foley. Or Butch Harmon. Or Hank Haney.

post #30 of 86
The Skip Bayless-Stephen A. Smith duo is way worse. I'd be hard-pressed to find two bigger assclowns on TV at the same time.
post #31 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grndslmhttr3 View Post

The Skip Bayless-Stephen A. Smith duo is way worse. I'd be hard-pressed to find two bigger assclowns on TV at the same time.

 

 

But they are fun to watch! :-D

 

While Brandel is not! 

post #32 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

I disagree with the notion that Chamblee isn't a qualified swing analyst because he was a marginal tour player. He isn't a qualified swing analyst because he doesn't know and refuses to learn simple facts about the golf swing and physics.

Totally agree with this.  Trent Dilfer, Harold Reynolds, Patrick McEnroe are just a handful of the myriad of pretty good and knowledgable announcers/analysts who played their sport decently at best.  It doesn't take away (or add to) their qualifications at all.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

Tiger has mechanical problems. He needs to work on that. I'm a little tired of all this "Tiger just needs to be Tiger" mental approach stuff, as if he just needs to think like a major winner and he's going to start winning majors again.

I don't know.  Erik said this yesterday:

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

I'll just say this: his range swing produces about 98% of the distance as his on-course swing, and is an order of magnitude more graceful and more accurate.

 

He doesn't add left side bend after 4 so much on the range, either…

How could it be anything BUT mental if your problem is that you can't reproduce your range swing on the course??

post #33 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by skydog View Post

Bayless is far worse than Chamblee, and it's really not even close

I completely understand how Chamblee can rub some people the wrong way but I think most of the criticism he gets on here is a function of him being critical of the game's most popular figure more so than people actually doubting his knowledge base. As an indifferent Tiger-observer, I think Chamblee's assessment is as good as anyone else's I've heard...I just think people have a  hard time with their golden boy's swing being criticized at all so they'd rather just dismiss him as some bitter underachiever.
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post #34 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonTheSavage View Post


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By indifferent, I mean not a fanboy or an anti. I don't like Tiger personally and think he has mismanaged his career and swing changes, but I want to see him succeed because the game is better with him. Call that whatever you want. I tend to think Chamblee is similar...maybe that distorts his judgment, I don't know.

post #35 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

I think what Chamblee is saying is "Tiger must own his swing;" a teacher helps find what the student wants, but the teacher is not a crutch; the student must have swag; and Tiger can't be contorted into positions that a Trackman commands.

 

You know this, but of course Trackman does not require "contorted positions." Tiger, swinging well, can hit the numbers easily, just as can every other PGA Tour player.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

 

What does playing ability have to do with it? I'm sure Chamblee is a better golfer than Sean Foley. Or Butch Harmon. Or Hank Haney.

 

Harmon has a PGA Tour victory too, FWIW. Albeit in a satellite event.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

I don't know.  Erik said this yesterday:

How could it be anything BUT mental if your problem is that you can't reproduce your range swing on the course??

 

His swing mechanics change on the golf course.

post #36 of 86

Tiger needs a caddy that can coach him during tournaments that he will listen to. I know this probably a impossible feat, but I am pretty sure he knows what he wants to accomplish and if he could have his caddy pick up on his swing flaws and let him know what he is doing. Obviously he doesn't has a slow motion camera so some of the nuances would be impossible to discern. i don't know, it seems like he just tries too hard during tournaments.

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