or Connect
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Pro Shop › Clubs, Grips, Shafts, Fitting › Wedges: Scor v Vokey v 588 Rtx v MacDaddy 2...Best?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Wedges: Scor v Vokey v 588 Rtx v MacDaddy 2...Best?

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
I currently carry 52-10*, 56-16*, 60-12*. I play in So Cal, firm dry courses. I am a sweeper, not a digger. Probably too much bounce. Current clubs have no texture on the faces, only grooves. They play ok, but not much spin. Head shape most like the 588. I use them all for full shots, half shots, pitches and chips. Any advice is appreciated.
post #2 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnull View Post

I currently carry 52-10*, 56-16*, 60-12*. I play in So Cal, firm dry courses. I am a sweeper, not a digger. Probably too much bounce. Current clubs have no texture on the faces, only grooves. They play ok, but not much spin. Head shape most like the 588. I use them all for full shots, half shots, pitches and chips. Any advice is appreciated.

Texture on the face does nothing to affect spin.

post #3 of 46

I currently have the Vokey wedges, and I need to replace my 54*. I saw the Edel video, and looked at their website, and although they cost a tad more than off the rack clubs, imho they are well worth the extra $$. Here's a video of Edel.

 

 

post #4 of 46
Thread Starter 
Hi Shorty,

If you check the scientific research, the surface between the grooves creates the most friction. So a rougher surface creates greater friction. The top edge of the grooves that contact the ball add to this friction. So a smooth surface with grooves will not have as much friction as a rougher surface with the same grooves. See Tom Wishon's article on wedge spin.

That being said, I was asking for experience in spin between the different wedges and their different surfaces.

Thanks for your input, do you have experience with any of these wedges?
post #5 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnull View Post

If you check the scientific research, the surface between the grooves creates the most friction. So a rougher surface creates greater friction. The top edge of the grooves that contact the ball add to this friction. So a smooth surface with grooves will not have as much friction as a rougher surface with the same grooves. See Tom Wishon's article on wedge spin.

That being said, I was asking for experience in spin between the different wedges and their different surfaces.

 

http://sinclairgolf.com/research/83-which-wedge-spins-the-most

 

The scientific research is ongoing, and the more credible and larger number of studies seem to point towards face texture having little to nothing to do with spin.

post #6 of 46
Thread Starter 
Then what do you say creates spin? Physics would suggest that contact outside the axis of the ball, thus creating a force outside the center, as well as speed of the clubhead, creating the speed of the force outside the center and friction to apply the force to the ball all combine to create spin. Are you saying that a smooth face creates as much friction as a rough face? It does not make sense to me, but if you want to direct me to the studies I would love to read them. Thanks!
post #7 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnull View Post

Then what do you say creates spin?

 

Friction. But friction exists on smooth milled faces, smooth cast faces, rougher milled faces, etc.

 

The USGA regulates surface texture and the regulations are so tight that you can't create the "sharp edges" necessary to create additional spin.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnull View Post

Are you saying that a smooth face creates as much friction as a rough face? It does not make sense to me, but if you want to direct me to the studies I would love to read them. Thanks!

 

I gave you a link to one of them. There are others.

 

You seem to be overstating how "rough" a surface texture is allowed to be. You can't make steel 20-grit sandpaper textures on your wedge faces and expect it to pass the USGA guidelines/requirements on surface texture. :)

 

Furthermore, as a 20 index, you have a lot of other things to worry about before you get into the surface texture of your wedges.

post #8 of 46
I thought the milling on the face of golf clubs was to make them flatter (because it's easier to manufacture a flat surface by milling as opposed to casting or grinding)?
post #9 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

I thought the milling on the face of golf clubs was to make them flatter (because it's easier to manufacture a flat surface by milling as opposed to casting or grinding)?


Pretty much, yes. Milling is primarily used to create uniformly flat surfaces. Some companies "hide" the milling marks, other companies let them show.

post #10 of 46
Thread Starter 
Looked at the link, did not see it before. I believe they are saying that milling did nit seem to increasefiction, but that a rougher surface would increase friction. So the issue is if the surface of any of the wedges has a rough enough surface to increaee friction or is it all groove driven.
post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnull View Post

Looked at the link, did not see it before. I believe they are saying that milling did nit seem to increasefiction, but that a rougher surface would increase friction. So the issue is if the surface of any of the wedges has a rough enough surface to increaee friction or is it all groove driven.


And such a rougher surface is not allowed under the Rules for equipment. The manufacturers have taken surface texture as far as it can go. Until you could create "edges" that "bit" into the ball more, friction won't be increased. Current results suggest that the legal amount of milling and "surface texture" has virtually no effect on spin.

 

Remember, friction is a function of materials and surface area. Increasing texture (without increasing it so much it's actually "rough" - which again is illegal) reduces surface area. The total friction is roughly the same - it's increased on any specific point of contact, but there are less points of contact (surface area).

 


 

Again, as a 20, I'd recommend spending your time elsewhere for now.

post #12 of 46
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the reply. That makes sense now. You keep referring to me spending my time elsewhere...lol! Yes, I am not a scratch golfer, or close at this point. I have been taking lessons for a year now. My swing is pretty good now, or so my instructor says. I am not focused on this, just curious. A little background: I have a degree in Kinesiology. I coached high school track. I am extremely analytical. I am a self taught woodworker, make furniture as a hobby. Worked as a bike mechanic during college. I tend to dissect anything I get involved with.

So when I began looking for new wedges, I poured over all the info I could find. Not obsessively, but to know as much as I reasonably could about them to make an informed decision. I do the same for all important purchases. I know that new wedges will not make me Phil with these clubs. I recently purchased new woods, hybrids and irons. A consistent swing has made golf enjoyable and I look forward to improving my consistency and course management. Short game is also on the list. Hence the desire to purchase new wedges. My main area of improvement will be to reduce the bounce, as it is probably too much for my local conditions. I just was curious about spin as well.

Again, thanks for your comments.
post #13 of 46

Seriously, give these guy's a look see.   http://edelgolf.com/

post #14 of 46
Totally anecdotal but I just picked up a new Vokey 60 degree. After the hitting the range and playing one round I really am feeling good about this club. Not saying too much as the stick it replaced was an ancient Spaldling.
post #15 of 46

IMO, difference between the wedges you specified is not about the face or spin as @iacas and @Shorty stated but about the grinds and bounce.  Callaway has introduced more grinds with the newest "Tour Grinds" release but overall I think Vokey and Edel still offer the greatest number of grind and bounce options and both can create custom wedges for you if you don't find a combo you like off the shelf.

 

Once you determine what the best grind and bounce would be for the courses you play, you can limit your choices and try out the wedges that best match what you need.

post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18rounds View Post

Totally anecdotal but I just picked up a new Vokey 60 degree. After the hitting the range and playing one round I really am feeling good about this club. Not saying too much as the stick it replaced was an ancient Spaldling.

A lot of that may just be new grooves on the Vokey. The same Vokey after a few years of playing will feel a lot different than a copy of it you take out of plastic wrap a few years from now to compare because of the effect the fresh grooves will have. Notwithstanding that, the new Vokey wedges are wonderful products.
post #17 of 46

I had 50, 54 and 60 Vokeys in Oil Can.  I decided to upgrade, and went with, 52 Hopkins, 56 Vokey Indigo, and 60 Callaway Mack Daddy 2 Tour Grind.    I've had great results with these, and while I prefer to go with the same brand on all my wedges, I'm quite happy w/ the spin and control of my wedges.  The Callaway and Vokey are great.

post #18 of 46
Like Nomo, all my wedges aren't the same brand. My 52 and 56 are Vokeys, and my 60 is a Cleveland 588. I go with what works.

All the wedges noted in this thread are great, you just need to find what works best for your game. The most important factor to consider in my opinion is bounce... Give yourself the most options for different conditions and lies.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Clubs, Grips, Shafts, Fitting
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Pro Shop › Clubs, Grips, Shafts, Fitting › Wedges: Scor v Vokey v 588 Rtx v MacDaddy 2...Best?