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Drop zone after hazard off par 4 tee


Chris223
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So a quick question. On a par 4 forced carry water hazard off the tee you hit into the water. Option is of course to re-tee, but the course has a drop zone marked with tee markers on a tee box (shared with the gold and red tees, just further forward of them) on the other side of the lake which makes your next shot instead of forced carry dead straight water all down the right. Question is if you choose drop zone over re-tee can you tee the ball up? Myself and one playing partner both hit into the water yesterday and weren't sure. The drop zone was marked with tee markers and not just a painted circle if you will and its still a par 4 at the tee box. It would be a punishing drop zone if you were not able to re-tee and hit to hit iron, or wood off the deck.

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Best Score 2017:  82 (Traditions at the Glen, Par 70)

Favorite Course - Conklin Players Club (Par 72) - Best Score 86

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So a quick question. On a par 4 forced carry water hazard off the tee you hit into the water. Option is of course to re-tee, but the course has a drop zone marked with tee markers on a tee box (shared with the gold and red tees, just further forward of them) on the other side of the lake which makes your next shot instead of forced carry dead straight water all down the right. Question is if you choose drop zone over re-tee can you tee the ball up? Myself and one playing partner both hit into the water yesterday and weren't sure. The drop zone was marked with tee markers and not just a painted circle if you will and its still a par 4 at the tee box. It would be a punishing drop zone if you were not able to re-tee and hit to hit iron, or wood off the deck.

I cannot imagine on what basis you would be allowed to tee your ball in a drop zone.  The only place you can tee or re-tee your ball is on your teeing ground, which is defined as the place you put your ball in play at the beginning of the hole.  The fact that the committee marked a drop zone in the same place as some OTHER teeing ground (it is not YOUR teeing ground since that is not where you started the hole) does not allow you to tee your ball.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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I cannot imagine on what basis you would be allowed to tee your ball in a drop zone.  The only place you can tee or re-tee your ball is on your teeing ground, which is defined as the place you put your ball in play at the beginning of the hole.  The fact that the committee marked a drop zone in the same place as some OTHER teeing ground (it is not YOUR teeing ground since that is not where you started the hole) does not allow you to tee your ball.

Additionally, I've learned from this forum that drop zones beyond the hazard, while not at all uncommon for pace of play reasons and high handicappers sanity, are technically against the rules of golf.

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Additionally, I've learned from this forum that drop zones beyond the hazard, while not at all uncommon for pace of play reasons and high handicappers sanity, are technically against the rules of golf.


I don't know if it's necessarily beyond it.  It's a Par 4 dogleg right from the white tees... but the hole is completely open.  From the white tees there is a huge lake directly in front that runs all along the right side of the fairway up to the side of the green.  You can aim left off the tee, and only have to hit over the very corner of the water, but you leave yourself more than 200 yards into the green with water right, not favorable.  You can go dead straight, over the water and try to place your ball in the fairway between 2 well placed bunkers.  Or you can hit it 300+ yards and probably be within 40 yards of the green... but you have to carry it I'd say 250+ to get over the water as you're hitting over the lake where it widens.

The drop zone isn't in front of the water, it's just to the side - so instead of hitting over the water, the hole becomes dead straight with water right.  It is certainly a shorter hole, but not by a lot

Callaway XR 9.5 + 1, Taylormade R15 3 Wood, Burner 3 Rescue, Callaway XHot 5H, Warbird 4H, Nike Vapor Fly 6-AW Irons, Titleist Vokey 54, 60 Wedges, Taylormade Rossa Fontana Putter, Srixon Z-Star Tour Yellow.

Best Score 2017:  82 (Traditions at the Glen, Par 70)

Favorite Course - Conklin Players Club (Par 72) - Best Score 86

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I don't know if it's necessarily beyond it.  It's a Par 4 dogleg right from the white tees... but the hole is completely open.  From the white tees there is a huge lake directly in front that runs all along the right side of the fairway up to the side of the green.  You can aim left off the tee, and only have to hit over the very corner of the water, but you leave yourself more than 200 yards into the green with water right, not favorable.  You can go dead straight, over the water and try to place your ball in the fairway between 2 well placed bunkers.  Or you can hit it 300+ yards and probably be within 40 yards of the green... but you have to carry it I'd say 250+ to get over the water as you're hitting over the lake where it widens.

The drop zone isn't in front of the water, it's just to the side - so instead of hitting over the water, the hole becomes dead straight with water right.  It is certainly a shorter hole, but not by a lot

Oh OK, gotcha.  We have some courses here in Orange County that have forced carry tee shots over hazards, and they have drop zones on the other side of the hazard.  Yours doesn't sound quite like that, so I take back what I said. :beer:

But you definitely CANNOT use a tee. :-P

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Additionally, I've learned from this forum that drop zones beyond the hazard, while not at all uncommon for pace of play reasons and high handicappers sanity, are technically against the rules of golf.

I have a hole like this on my home course.   It's a par 5, massive downhill to a landing area from the tee.   Then a lake.   Then more fairway and the green.   It's 360 to the lake off the tee and you get 80-100 yards from the downhill, so a lot of people don't hit driver.   We have a local rule that states if you hit into the lake (it's yellow) off the tee, you cannot go to the drop area on the other side.   However, if your second (or higher) shot goes into the water, you have the option to hit like a normal yellow hazard or proceed to the drop area.

—Adam

 

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I have a hole like this on my home course.   It's a par 5, massive downhill to a landing area from the tee.   Then a lake.   Then more fairway and the green.   It's 360 to the lake off the tee and you get 80-100 yards from the downhill, so a lot of people don't hit driver.   We have a local rule that states if you hit into the lake (it's yellow) off the tee, you cannot go to the drop area on the other side.   However, if your second (or higher) shot goes into the water, you have the option to hit like a normal yellow hazard or proceed to the drop area.

That is an interesting approach, but unless they got a specific approval from the USGA (which I have my doubts about them granting, under these circumstances) it is not a valid local rule.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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That is an interesting approach, but unless they got a specific approval from the USGA (which I have my doubts about them granting, under these circumstances) it is not a valid local rule.

What is the invalid part? And I ask because I really don't know, although I am looking up the rules on yellow staked holes. 1 - that the drop area is on the other side? 2 - that with a drop area you enforce hitting off the tee not being able to use it? Or both? I personally don't like this rule because whatever shot you hit there should not affect how you have to play the next shot. It's not like the drop zone is a bail out (it's not an easy shot to get on the green). If you blast a driver into the hazard and then proceed to the drop zone, you will be lucky to make par. I would prefer to play from point of entry and not have a drop zone. The carry is approx 80 yards, and if you have to play from there it's 185 to the green. But the hole itself is the best they could do because they were not allowed to create the hole they wanted. It's a weird par 5, although I like it a lot.

—Adam

 

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What is the invalid part? And I ask because I really don't know, although I am looking up the rules on yellow staked holes.

In order for a local rule to be valid it has to be authorized by the USGA.  In the rulebook there is Appendix I which, among other things, contains model local rules dealing with a number of different situations.  Clubs can adopt any of these model local rules without any specific approval.  However, local rules that do not fit into one of the model must be submitted to and approved by the USGA to be valid.

When I said your local rule was not valid unless it had been approved by the USGA what I really was saying is that your local rule does not follow any of the pre-approved local rules. I wasn't commenting on the substance of the local rule.

Sometimes Committees get the mistaken impression that by calling something a local rule they can do pretty much any thing they want, but that is not the case.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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  • 3 months later...
One of the courses I play has 3 drop zones that take you past the hazard.. Beautiful par 73 course and long, but no course rating. Maybe this is why? One of them is the last hole where to get to the green you have to go over the water, but if you miss your drop is basically on the fringe. The reason it is interesting is because it is a par 5, so after a good drive you can attempt to get on two and if you miss in the water you are still getting up and down for par pretty easy.. Anyway, I'm assuming anything I score at that course would not be eligible for a HC if I wished to keep one this year?

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

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One of the courses I play has 3 drop zones that take you past the hazard.. Beautiful par 73 course and long, but no course rating. Maybe this is why?

One of them is the last hole where to get to the green you have to go over the water, but if you miss your drop is basically on the fringe.

The reason it is interesting is because it is a par 5, so after a good drive you can attempt to get on two and if you miss in the water you are still getting up and down for par pretty easy.. Anyway, I'm assuming anything I score at that course would not be eligible for a HC if I wished to keep one this year?

You are correct.  The rounds that are not to be posted are described in section 5-1e of the USGA Handicap Manual as follows:

e. Unacceptable Scores

Scores made under the following conditions are not acceptable for handicap purposes and must not be entered in the player's scoring record:

(i) When fewer than seven holes are played;

(ii) When made on a golf course in an area in which an inactive seasonestablished by the authorized golf association is in effect;

(iii) When the length of the course is less than 3,000 yards for 18 holes (or less than 1,500 yards for 9 holes);

(iv) When, as a condition of the competition, the maximum number of clubs allowed is less than 14, or types of clubs are limited as, for example, in a competition that allows only iron clubs;

(v) When scores are made on a course with no USGA Course Rating or Slope Rating;

(vi) When a player uses non-conforming clubs, non-conforming balls, or tees;

(vii) With respect to Rule 14-3 (Rules of Golf), when an artificial device or piece of unusual equipment is used during the execution of a stroke or when equipment is used in an unusual manner during the execution of a stroke. (See Decision 5-1e/3.)

Hope that helps.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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Golf must have really been rough on some of the "killer No. 18" holes on some courses built prior to World War II.

When I lived in Enid, Oklahoma in the 1980s, an old-timer (back then) told me of one such hole. If I remember right, it was a 240-yd. par 3, with a forced carry of 220 yards over the water. And, it had traps left and right beside the green.

He said that half the guys who played there had to pick up, because they couldn't get the ball over the water.

-----------------------------

A whole subset of golf rules governs the drop policies around sensitive nature "no go" areas in some modern courses.

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Golf must have really been rough on some of the "killer No. 18" holes on some courses built prior to World War II.

When I lived in Enid, Oklahoma in the 1980s, an old-timer (back then) told me of one such hole. If I remember right, it was a 240-yd. par 3, with a forced carry of 220 yards over the water. And, it had traps left and right beside the green.

He said that half the guys who played there had to pick up, because they couldn't get the ball over the water.

-----------------------------

A whole subset of golf rules governs the drop policies around sensitive nature "no go" areas in some modern courses.

What was wrong with laying up, pitching and one or two putting? For most it would be a net par.

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Golf must have really been rough on some of the "killer No. 18" holes on some courses built prior to World War II.

When I lived in Enid, Oklahoma in the 1980s, an old-timer (back then) told me of one such hole. If I remember right, it was a 240-yd. par 3, with a forced carry of 220 yards over the water. And, it had traps left and right beside the green.

He said that half the guys who played there had to pick up, because they couldn't get the ball over the water.

-----------------------------

A whole subset of golf rules governs the drop policies around sensitive nature "no go" areas in some modern courses.

A pre-WW2 240 yard par 3?  Whodathunkit?  With a forced 220 yard carry over water.  Seems like really poor course design to me.  It would be crazy NOW, let alone with pre-WW2 equipment.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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Note: This thread is 3354 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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