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WSJ: Golf's biggest delusions

nevets88

By nevets88,
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nevets88 Incredible Member

nevets88

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Keep your head down, putt for dough, tour accuracy with wedges, distance, Ben Hogan's secret and moar! http://m.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203918304577241550813907764?mobile=y

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

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billchao Incredible Member

billchao

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Disappointing. It seemed like it had such potential, then it went straight downhill, right around the bit about keeping the head still.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

This part alone was worth the read:

Quote:

"I hit my drives 270 yards." Hah! Maybe once, with the wind behind you, on a rock-hard fairway, when the ball bounced off a cart path and a squirrel advanced it an extra 10 yards. On no subject are golfers, especially male golfers, more deluded than on the distance they hit their drives, with the possible exception of their attractiveness to beverage-cart personnel. Here are the brutal facts, accumulated by Dave Pelz over several years of monitoring thousands of players at amateur tournaments. He used the same ShotLink equipment used by the PGA Tour to determine that, in 2011, the world's best players averaged 291 yards off the tee. Male amateurs who play to a 30 handicap average drives of 166 yards; 20-handicappers average 183 yards; 10-handicappers average 214 yards; scratch amateurs average 235 yards. So dream on.

Except, it should have been titled: "I hit my drives 300+ yards--straight down the middle of the fairway--every time."

He probably means carry yardage, because I find it really difficult to fathom making consistent pars with a 235 yard total drive unless you are a "super senior putter" who never misses from 20 feet. . .

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billchao Incredible Member

billchao

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He probably means carry yardage, because I find it really difficult to fathom making consistent pars with a 235 yard total drive unless you are a "super senior putter" who never misses from 20 feet. . .

I think it's a true average. As in, factoring in tops and pop ups, etc.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Pretzel Super Member

Pretzel

I think it's a true average. As in, factoring in tops and pop ups, etc.

I can tell you right now that a scratch golfer won't top it or pop up the ball. I haven't done either of those once this year.

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billchao Incredible Member

billchao

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I can tell you right now that a scratch golfer won't top it or pop up the ball. I haven't done either of those once this year.

Well I meant mishits in general. It's just easier to visualize something like that skewing the average than trying to explain every possible scenario that a guy who hits his driver regularly 260 will end up hitting it 200. Hmm now that I think about it, my driving average is 180. Maybe they're onto something ;-)

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

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Pretzel Super Member

Pretzel

Well I meant mishits in general. It's just easier to visualize something like that skewing the average than trying to explain every possible scenario that a guy who hits his driver regularly 260 will end up hitting it 200.

Hmm now that I think about it, my driving average is 180. Maybe they're onto something

I still think that average is incredibly low, and I would be willing to bet that Pelz knows it (and probably uses it to sell his short game stuff). The last time I hit a tee shot that much shorter than usual was over a month ago (July 30th, it was a snap hook when someone's caddie in a tournament burst out laughing in the middle of my downswing). I will lose 30 yards to my normal shot if I hit it really poorly, but not much more than that for the really thin or toe-y shots for me.

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Dave2512 Super Member

Dave2512

I don't track drives anymore but when I did, all of 2013 playing to a handicap of 10-11ish, I averaged 247. That was everything the good, bad and real bad. A typical day was worst sub 200 and best near 300 with you name it in between.

Dave :-)

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boogielicious Incredible Member

boogielicious

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Thanks for posting @nevets88

Scott

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Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

Well I meant mishits in general. It's just easier to visualize something like that skewing the average than trying to explain every possible scenario that a guy who hits his driver regularly 260 will end up hitting it 200.

Hmm now that I think about it, my driving average is 180. Maybe they're onto something

Here's an article on impact position by handicap.

http://www.golfwrx.com/167927/impact-location-by-handicap/

Note that in 10 consecutive shots, even a 10 handicap did not top the ball. 15 and above does. This data seems correlate with my observations. In entire rounds, I have not seen such bad mishits from any of the single digit payers.

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"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

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NJpatbee Great Member

NJpatbee

I agree that the average drive is misleadingly low and that the median drive length is more accurate to look at.  I am a 62 year old 18 handicap with a bad back and my typical drive is 210-220 carry and roll.  Sometimes I am 230+, and sometimes I mishit the ball about 80 yards into the rough - both of these are the exceptions.  I do agree that most golfers overestimate the length of their typical drive which may account for too many golfers playing from the blue (tips) tees that really should move up.

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Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

I agree that the average drive is misleadingly low and that the median drive length is more accurate to look at.  I am a 62 year old 18 handicap with a bad back and my typical drive is 210-220 carry and roll.  Sometimes I am 230+, and sometimes I mishit the ball about 80 yards into the rough - both of these are the exceptions.  I do agree that most golfers overestimate the length of their typical drive which may account for too many golfers playing from the blue (tips) tees that really should move up.

Agreed, but it's rare to have scratch golfers drive only 235 total yards. They would need to be putting in the high 20's, or be absolutely consistent zero bogey golfers. It really helps to be able to make those birdies, and without length that's really hard to do.

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

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nevets88 Incredible Member

nevets88

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Disappointing. It seemed like it had such potential, then it went straight downhill, right around the bit about keeping the head still.

Yeah, but it ended decently though. The points on stats was in line with LSW, Broadie. Wonder if the guy read about 5SK?

Despite the Hogan point, there are gonna be many more this was Hogan's secret posts on the internet. You heard it here, I called it! :-)

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

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billchao Incredible Member

billchao

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Yeah, but it ended decently though. The points on stats was in line with LSW, Broadie. Wonder if the guy read about 5SK?

I didn't get that impression. They make a big deal about pros being better than amateurs more because of their short game than their long, which is definitely not in line with LSW or Broadie. And the article supports "drive for show, putt for dough."

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

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Pretzel Super Member

Pretzel

Agreed, but it's rare to have scratch golfers drive only 235 total yards. They would need to be putting in the high 20's, or be absolutely consistent zero bogey golfers. It really helps to be able to make those birdies, and without length that's really hard to do.

We need to keep in mind still that this data was collected(the driving distance data that is) by a man who makes a living off of selling short game books and clinics.

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Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

We need to keep in mind still that this data was collected(the driving distance data that is) by a man who makes a living off of selling short game books and clinics.

Another reason to doubt. :beer:

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

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newtogolf Incredible Member

newtogolf

I didn't get that impression. They make a big deal about pros being better than amateurs more because of their short game than their long, which is definitely not in line with LSW or Broadie. And the article supports "drive for show, putt for dough."

I hear all the pro instructors on PGA Tour Radio (Haney, Dew Sweepers, McLean) all tout the importance of the short game.  The logic is not everyone is physically capable of hitting a 300+ yard drive but everyone is capable of playing 100 yards and in so the focus should be on minimizing the shots that it takes from 100 yards and in.

Logically, it makes sense, but I'd guess there's a skill level or age where return on time investment indicates the need to switch the training emphasis from long game to short game.

Ironically, Erik has pointed out here numerous times that the ladies are not as good at the short game and putting as the men, so that would almost refute the quality of the advice, given the women aren't only hitting it shorter than men, their short game is lacking as well.

Joe Paradiso

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