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Does "competitive" need to be "offensive"?


CR McDivot
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On the golfing landscape there seem to be a few, if not many, highly competitive players that appear to have a disdain for the beginner or recreational golfer. These "elite" players often whine about the perceived lack of skills, dedication, or pace of those "lesser" golfers.

My father introduced me to the grand game with an emphasis on etiquette and respect for the game, the players, and the course. Make no mistake, Pop was a scratch player and thoroughly enjoyed winning a few trophies and more than a few bucks in friendly competition, but always appreciated the fellowship of other golfers and never did I hear him disparage the least player on the course.

Pop was a true gentleman, in victory or in loss. He loved the game and those who shared it with him. Though I may never attain to the level of play of my father, I pray that I may share the spirit of the game that made him the great golfer, and the fine man that he was.

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Craig

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I totally get disparaging remarks to slow players as they are the bane of the game, but from my experience sloe play doesn't discriminate. Some of the slowest @#$ s I've see on the course have been low markers who watch too many tournaments in tv and mimic the tour guys stalking putts from every angle before hitting the damn ball.
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Well written, CR.

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The club I belong to has the lowest average index in the state of CA, in fact in our weekend games I get categorized in the not so low index page :-D . Anyways I see both sides of what the OP is referring to quite often, thankfully there is more acceptance than disdain on the surface at least but who knows what people say amongst themselves and since I'm one of the high index guys I'm not in that loop.

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The club I belong to has the lowest average index in the state of CA, in fact in our weekend games I get categorized in the not so low index page:-D . Anyways I see both sides of what the OP is referring to quite often, thankfully there is more acceptance than disdain on the surface at least but who knows what people say amongst themselves and since I'm one of the high index guys I'm not in that loop.

Wow, that's a skilled club. What is the highest indexed member?

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Of course highly competitive golfers need not be offensive.  Just as relatively unskilled golfers need not be slow or lacking in etiquette.

FWIW, I also know many golfers who are highly competitive, but carry fairly high handicaps.  You don't need to be good, to want to beat the snot out of your buddies.

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Well people tent to get offensive when they get their ass kicked.

The guy who did teach me the game always told me just let your golf do the talking.

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Players playing competitive golf do not have to be offensive to those around them. Of course there are probably some competitive golfers who have to be offensive to be comfortable. on a golf course. You will see this offensive, competitive person in all walks of life. Quite a few will be successful in their endeavors. I suspect there might be a few of these types of folks on all social forums regardless of the topic.

The problem with the "elite" amateur player the OP is talking about, is that they have forgotten when they were first starting to learn this game, and most likely played much slower than they do now. No one is born a single digit golfer. The competitive, offensive, better player has, and probably still does, hit every bad  shot in the book from time to time. It's their arrogance in my opinion, that probably keeps them from being 1 or 2 strokes better, since they have a problem coping with their own poor shots. .

Myself, I don't really care what the skill level of any golfers I share the game with. I don't really care how fast , or slow a golfer plays the game. I am out there to enjoy the game, while trying to play my best golf. I can only control what I do. If the person is playing slower than me, I adapt my game to their speed limit.  If the persons is a track star, then they are free to leave me in the dust. I can slow my game down, but I won't speed it up. Speeding up takes me out of my own rhythm, and/or timing, that will cost me strokes.There have been many times when playing with a golfer with less skills than I, that I have reminded myself, and them that I have that same poor shot in my bag. I sometimes even tell them hit another one, while trying something different with their swing.

I remember once while waiting on a backed up tee, that I my wife had joined me that day. Some what new to the game, she was nervous about possibly hitting a bad shot. There was a guy who was being an butt head, who was loudly complaining to everyone about the wait. Myself, in my own loud manner, told my wife in front of that same everyone, that we all had hit, and will continue to hit bad tee shots, and not to worry about the outcome of her own tee shot. The BH tee'd off before us, and of course hit a lousy shot. He proceeded to loudly piss and moan, while blaming his poor shot on the slower players in front of him. I just smiled and told my wife "see what I mean?" My wife hit a very decent tee shot, which made the rest of the 9 holes much more pleasant for her, and myself. More importantly, she wanted to continue to play the game.

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There have always been "golf snobs" either by "class" or skill level. Heck the game was pretty much founded on it.

It's usually subtle but you can see it and feel it if you pay attention to how new members are accepted at the club.

A scratch golfer joins the club and he will have more "buddies" than he can handle within a week. A high handicapper has a little more trouble getting in "the click".

They aren't mean about it but just don't include the new high handicapper in their plans or go out of their way to invite him into their games.

Luckily the first club I joined was fairly low on the snobbery scale compared to the other country club in town.

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I only grumble at slow play. I do not care about their hc or swings. Just play at a pace that does not hold up anyone else.

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Poll added, along with my "No" vote.

I have played several hundred competitive rounds, and fewer than 1% of them included someone I would call "offensive" from a competitive standpoint.

I prefer not to play with a bunch of people who are hacking it around the course - trying to find two or three balls on every hole can get tiresome - but if they keep up and don't cause delays then I couldn't care less.

In my experience, too, some of the guys who get into the shouting matches and stuff over "competitive" issues are the ones who disagree that they should only get 18 strokes instead of the 21 they feel they deserve. Higher handicappers. Most of the lower handicappers I know don't have such arguments.

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I totally get disparaging remarks to slow players as they are the bane of the game, but from my experience sloe play doesn't discriminate. Some of the slowest @#$ s I've see on the course have been low markers who watch too many tournaments in tv and mimic the tour guys stalking putts from every angle before hitting the damn ball.

One of our better players (legit scratch handicap) deliberately plays at a snails pace to throw his competition off. Everybody knows it but he still gets under their skin. Total a-hole.

I usually avoid him, but one time I got him as a partner in a money game. I sucked on the front nine and he harangued me mercilessly. I picked it up (not because of his crap, but because I found my swing around the 8th hole) and shot one over on the back on a very difficult, championship golf course. Then, I was his best buddy.

Bill M

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I voted "No"

I have played competitive sports growing up and I hardly ever found them offensive. I get the concept that some people think talking trash is offensive, I think in some sports it is part of the game. I know some current PGA Tour players like to talk it up a bit before or after a tournament, usually now ala Twitter. I don't think they really say much inside the ropes on the course.

The only guys I found annoying are who like to comment on every shot, theirs and yours. Explaining why you shouldn't have done that. He would do that in a casual round or in a match. Just his personality on the course. You get kinda use to it by just letting him talk and tuning him out. Still it was annoying, but I wouldn't call it offensive.

One of our better players deliberately plays at a snails pace to throw his competition off. Everybody knows it but he still gets under their skin. Total a-hole.

Oh that is just gamesmanship right there. I think that is a matter of perception though. I was playing in a match this year in a league I am in. Usually we go off in foursomes, but if people are running late, we can go off in twosomes. Well the guy I paired up with is a very fast golfer. He walks fast as well. So, you can really get out of sync trying to keep up. It bothered me for about 2 holes, then I just slowed down to my pace and forced him to have to wait a bit. My pace isn't slow by any means. Still,I wasn't going to let him dictate the speed of the match.

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All I can say as many have already stated, some people need to get over themselves and realize that we're all squirrels in this world trying to find a nut.... No better or worse then anyone!!!!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

One of our better players deliberately plays at a snails pace to throw his competition off. Everybody knows it but he still gets under their skin. Total a-hole.

Originally Posted by saevel25

Oh that is just gamesmanship right there. I think that is a matter of perception though. I was playing in a match this year in a league I am in. Usually we go off in foursomes, but if people are running late, we can go off in twosomes. Well the guy I paired up with is a very fast golfer. He walks fast as well. So, you can really get out of sync trying to keep up. It bothered me for about 2 holes, then I just slowed down to my pace and forced him to have to wait a bit. My pace isn't slow by any means. Still,I wasn't going to let him dictate the speed of the match.

Call it what you want, it is offensive. He is not being focused or methodical, he is purposefully slow, particularly if he is in a situation where his pace is not being monitored. He can't get away with it in GAP tournaments, but he is known for it in Club Championship matches, where the staff doesn't have the balls to push the members and/or penalize them. This past season he was in a foursome that took 4:45 to play in the quarters of the Club Championship, and all of the other three players in the group noted that it was all because of him. He not only threw his opponent off, who was the defending champ and lost his cool, he messed up the pace for a player in the other match as well. Thankfully, he was beat in the semis by a very patient, savvy veteran player who managed to pace himself accordingly.

Bill M

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