Where do you drop in this situation?

This situation came up during a round last year. No one really knew how to deal with it. Landscaped areas are a free drop no nearer the hole on the scorecard. I marked the landscaped areas on the picture below. I marked where my ball went - yep - right over the green, hit a rock in the landscaping behind the green and bounced into the lot which is not marked out of bounds by white stakes or on the scorecard. The white dot labeled "ball" is where it came to rest.

One of the committee members was in our foursome and wasn't exactly sure, so I made the "executive decision." What I did was I went to my ball and shot the distance to the flag with my range finder and moved it to the nearest place where I could stand and swing my club and have both my feet and the ball on grass, no nearer the hole - 26 yds from the flag. No one said anything. No one protested. And went up and down for my bogey. This was in a match tournament. I halved the hole.

What would have been the correct ruling on this?

I guess it was thought it didn't matter because I was down 4 holes at the time, but it wasn't until 17 when I lost the match. Yeah, I made a comeback on the back 9. I'm a competitor.

It nearly sounds fine. The only thing you didn't consciously do (although you might have without thinking about it) was to drop within 1 clublength, not nearer the hole of that point you identified. That point was of course the 'nearest point of relief' from the tarmac or concrete parking area.

However, it would appear from the picture that the real npr was in the landscaped area to the left of the picture. In which case you should have dropped there. Then taken relief from that area - probably on the parking lot!!

Then eventually treated both area as one and taken relief from the whole thing in one go. Probably ending up where you did eventually.

There is a decision on such a situation.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-01/#1-4/8

See also

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-33/#33-8/25

Agree with Rulesman.

But one other point - be aware that the Rules provide relief from the tarmac or landscaped areas by finding the nearest point of relief from it and then dropping within one club length, no nearer the hole, BUT the Rules do not guarantee that you can play a stroke from the nearest point of relief or anywhere within the one club length of the nearest point of relief.  Relief from the object is assured, a playable next stroke is not!

So, are you indirectly stating that the npr could be just left of the landscape behind the tree? If so, then I'd hit off the parking lot. Probably would have anyway, as I have done something similar in the past.

It looks like, based on the sketch, that the tree is within the landscaped area ... but yeah, he's reminding us that NPR could, very well, be anywhere, including the base of a tree, or directly behind a tree, or any number of places that would make you think twice about exercising that drop option.

I think a lot of us tend to equate the word "relief" with "a clear place to take a full swing," and it's nothing of the sort.

It was a very tricky situation. I was looking for a spot where I wasn't going to be in a landscaped area or where my feet or club would have been impeded by the cart path on the right. The area where I dropped was not flat, and my ball rolled downhill, and just happened to give me a decent approach. I am aware that if my ball had come to rest immediately I would have had to hit a very tricky runner to the putting surface under the tree branch instead of the soft lob shot.

No one thought to look up a ruling.

I don't think you would have used your lob wedge off the parking lot. Those shrubs in front of you were 4' tall. You could have putted it to where I dropped after you moved the refreshment cart that was parked there.

I live for those shots! The bottom of my wedges show it too, good thing they're stainless steel. ;-)

Here's another drop situation.... This one got resolved by the committee, however. I thought I'd post it because it was quite interesting and stirred a bit of controversy. We like those things, right?

This is the par 5 18 ^th hole. 539/514/430/423 (seriously - the yellow tee markers are closer to the reds than that). The water hazard eats a ton of balls from hapless players. So many that there was a rule in place that if you dunked two, you used to be able to carry to the yellow circle “drop zone” and chip onto the green. We in the Ladies Club had that rule changed. Now the local rule is that if you dunk one in you can take the usual relief allowed under USGA rules OR drop in the pink circle. I thought this was interesting.

Another interesting issue is that lateral marking on the side with the sand trap. It tends to alternate with a yellow. With the pink drop zone, I’d prefer it to be yellow, but they changed it to red. Hit the tree, and have your ball go in the drink, and you’re in the lie from hell. Good luck getting out of it. Mickelson would have trouble, although if you’re real good, you could play a bank shot off the shed and get into the greenside rough if you’re lucky, or is there a rule against doing that? Still your best shot in that case is to take the stroke and distance penalty.

I wrote the USGA about this situation, and they replied that hitting the tree growing on the other side of the water hazard, and having that tree knock your ball back into the hazard counts as if you made it over the hazard IF the hazard is marked red on that side. However, if it is marked yellow, you must drop a ball on the side of the hazard from which you hit the previous shot under the rules governing water hazards with yellow markers. What really screws things up is that the course can't make up their mind whether it is a yellow or red. You have to cross the bridge and check. I guess the appropriate question would be if this should be covered under the "drop in the drop zone rule" under all circumstances?

Another problem that comes up is in the women’s tee box. There’s a sprinkler head right in the middle of it. Depending upon the configuration, due to the depression caused by it, I’ve actually had to tee up with one of the tee markers in between my feet and the ball to get a reasonable stance. The tee shot for longer hitters is in pink and you see an errant tee shot to the right goes in the drink. A high shot down the left side hits the trees. It is set for short low hitters. I’d rather play white tees on this hole but that’s beside the point of this question. The men get the yellow line (there's a tic for the second shot about where the women's second shot is) and of course pros will use the black line making the green in 2.

I’m aware you can tee up two club lengths back from the markers, but the stance back there gets really cramped due to the fact you’re now in the “yellow tees” or Senior Men’s Tees, when our group is playing Red Tees. This may cause another problem. Rules?

The white box is my dream where I’d like to see the tee box moved. It will never happen. Women’s tee boxes are an afterthought.

How wide is the pond if you can not see the colour of the line (which should be yellow anyway)?

But anyway, regarding the LR about the DZ. I do not understand why there is a need to state after how many shots you can use DZ. Why not rule that if the ball lies in water hazard (not the left or right lateral), you get normal relief or DZ, whichever you prefer?

The poster said "We in the Ladies Club had that rule changed."

Presumably someone spotted it was 'illegal'.

Rulesman is right. We weren't happy with it, but the club played from it for years. I've been a bit of a sh*t stirrer since I joined. I ask questions. I'm not 100% familiar with all the rules, but I'm getting there. If there's a dispute during a round, I have stood my ground played a second ball out on the hole and took two scores, and got the ruling from the committee afterward - counting the score approved by the committee. Sometimes I've been right. Sometimes wrong. We've all learned.

This one started when I began complaining about the yellow and red line changing all the time, and asking questions about what happens if..., and made the comment about the carry over is stupid. It's only a 60 yd shot. We're making a 60 yd shot over water on 16. What's the big deal?

From the pink circle it requires me to hit a full lob wedge to carry both the water and the bunker and land near a front pin location. That's about a 65 yd shot, and that's at its narrowest point. And yes, you do get a choice. The pink circle was a compromise with the men's club who designated they yellow circle as the drop zone. We were playing by that rule and cringed carrying across.

Note: I'd been clearing it every time. After making that remark, I've dunked it in the water 80% of the time. I'm convinced the pro sits at his computer watching us with his camera and when he sees people hit over it he presses the "suck" button.

The women's tee box is defined by two club-lengths.  It matters not what is behind them.  You could have the yellow, white and blue tee markers all stacked up within your tee box and it wouldn't matter.

It looks like the way the club could make the hole more fair for the women is to remove or constantly prune back those trees immediately to the left of the women's tee box (or relocate the tee box).

The old drop zone was clearly illegal, so good on you for getting it changed.