Make an illegal driver and call it a "putter"?

tqcspup · December 5, 2014

As I read the rules, there is no restriction on the number of putters one can carry. (Provided the total number of clubs carried doesn't exceed 14) Currently, the 48 inch limit on shaft length and the "normal" requirement for the grip does not apply to putters. (i.e. The putter can be long and have the thicker, weird partially flat grip)

So my question is; what's to keep a golfer from carrying a longer than 48 inch driver (with a face less than 2.5 inches tall and the loft is less than 10 degrees) and just calling it a "putter". Putters aren't even subject to the pendulum test, so if a golf manufacturer wanted to really push the envelope, they could come up with a "putter" that has a COR of close to 1, a 7 inch heel to toe, shafted above the middle of the face, a thick size grip, and 52 inch shaft - and market it as a "driving putter."

The golfer could carry another "real putter" for actually putting.

Again, as I read the rules of golf, there is no restriction on where the putter may be used, so ...?

Am I missing something?

Maybe the USGA should consider making putters subject to the pendulum test, and all the other restrictions (on length of shaft, grip, placement of shaft, etc.) OR they could specifically prohibit the use of the putter to the green or the fringe adjacent to the green?

**Lihu** · December 5, 2014

As I read the rules, there is no restriction on the number of putters one can carry. (Provided the total number of clubs carried doesn't exceed 14) Currently, the 48 inch limit on shaft length and the "normal" requirement for the grip does not apply to putters. (i.e. The putter can be long and have the thicker, weird partially flat grip)

So my question is; what's to keep a golfer from carrying a longer than 48 inch driver (with a face less than 2.5 inches tall and the loft is less than 10 degrees) and just calling it a "putter". Putters aren't even subject to the pendulum test, so if a golf manufacturer wanted to really push the envelope, they could come up with a "putter" that has a COR of close to 1, a 7 inch heel to toe, shafted above the middle of the face, a thick size grip, and 52 inch shaft - and market it as a "driving putter."

The golfer could carry another "real putter" for actually putting.

Again, as I read the rules of golf, there is no restriction on where the putter may be used, so ...?

Am I missing something?

Maybe the USGA should consider making putters subject to the pendulum test, and all the other restrictions (on length of shaft, grip, placement of shaft, etc.) OR they could specifically prohibit the use of the putter to the green or the fringe adjacent to the green?

I know a few long drive guys that can hit a driver that long, but other than that no one that fusses up to it.

**Patch** · December 5, 2014

I made a 32" putter using a shallow face, square 7.5* driver head. I was just horsing around in the garage one day and made the critter. I took it to the course to practice with it. The teaching pro saw it and thought it was a good idea, except for the fact that front to back measurement exceeded what a putter is limited too. He was not sure of the limit, but he thought it had something to do with how wide the putter's face was.

So, if some one knows for sure, is there a limit on the front to back measurement on a putter, which might apply to what the OP is suggesting? I realize his is the opposite of what I did.

As for the putter I made, it worked ok, but was more of conversation piece, than a gamer. Much like the Rail Gun putter I have.

**acerimusdux** · December 5, 2014

A putter is also not subject to the USGA spring like effect rule, which might gain you more than the longer shaft. And the head size requirements for a putter are pretty generous, I think most drivers would actually meet them. The distance from the sole to the top of the head would be limited to 2.5 inches, whereas woods can go to 2.8 inches, so maybe some drivers would be too tall.

So then I guess the question is, is there a rule or ruling which says you can't use a putter to drive the ball?

Does it at that point become a driver?

Somehow, I have to suspect that if you just purchased a non-conforming driver, claimed it was your putter, and then went and teed off with it, a rules committe would not let you get away with that.

They might just have to fall back on the general definition of a putter as:

Quote:

A putter is a club with a loft not exceeding ten degrees designed primarily for use on the putting green

An off the shelf driver is obviously designed primarily for driving the ball, so shouldn't qualify. But if you designed a putter to be good at driving the ball, could it still be designed "primarily" for use on the putting green?

**Lihu** · December 5, 2014

A putter is also not subject to the USGA spring like effect rule, which might gain you more than the longer shaft. And the head size requirements for a putter are pretty generous, I think most drivers would actually meet them. The distance from the sole to the top of the head would be limited to 2.5 inches, whereas woods can go to 2.8 inches, so maybe some drivers would be too tall.

So then I guess the question is, is there a rule or ruling which says you can't use a putter to drive the ball?

Does it at that point become a driver?

Somehow, I have to suspect that if you just purchased a non-conforming driver, claimed it was your putter, and then went and teed off with it, a rules committe would not let you get away with that.

They might just have to fall back on the general definition of a putter as:

Quote:

A putter is a club with a loft not exceeding ten degrees designed primarily for use on the putting green

An off the shelf driver is obviously designed primarily for driving the ball, so shouldn't qualify. But if you designed a putter to be good at driving the ball, could it still be designed "primarily" for use on the putting green?

That's the key here, but I guess it's unreasonable to use your putter to drive. Or. . .is. . .it. . .?

http://golftips.golfsmith.com/can-use-putter-fairway-20618.html

**rogolf** · December 5, 2014

As I read the rules, there is no restriction on the number of putters one can carry. (Provided the total number of clubs carried doesn't exceed 14) Currently, the 48 inch limit on shaft length and the "normal" requirement for the grip does not apply to putters. (i.e. The putter can be long and have the thicker, weird partially flat grip)

So my question is; what's to keep a golfer from carrying a longer than 48 inch driver (with a face less than 2.5 inches tall and the loft is less than 10 degrees) and just calling it a "putter". Putters aren't even subject to the pendulum test, so if a golf manufacturer wanted to really push the envelope, they could come up with a "putter" that has a COR of close to 1, a 7 inch heel to toe, shafted above the middle of the face, a thick size grip, and 52 inch shaft - and market it as a "driving putter."

The golfer could carry another "real putter" for actually putting.

Again, as I read the rules of golf, there is no restriction on where the putter may be used, so ...?

Am I missing something?

Maybe the USGA should consider making putters subject to the pendulum test, and all the other restrictions (on length of shaft, grip, placement of shaft, etc.) OR they could specifically prohibit the use of the putter to the green or the fringe adjacent to the green?

Ok, make one and submit it to the USGA for approval, as per the preamble to Rule 4. I wouldn't bet on a positive outcome.

**acerimusdux** · December 5, 2014

That's the key here, but I guess it's unreasonable to use your putter to drive. Or. . .is. . .it. . .?

http://golftips.golfsmith.com/can-use-putter-fairway-20618.html

Clearly you can use it to drive. I don't think you can just take a driver and claim it is primarily for putting (which was my first thought). But if a creative manufacturer were to design a driving putter, that might make things interesting. And perhaps force a new ruling?

You would have to design it in such a way as to claim it was primarily for putting. So you might want to make it somewhat upright, closer to the usual lie angle of a putter 70 degrees rather than the 58-60 typical of a driver. Maybe give it a grip that is considered a putter grip.

Then make the head somewhat long and not too deep, give it a thin titanium face with the highest COR modern manufacturing will allow, and a center of mass suited for driving. As long as it looks like it is designed for putting, and is suited to that purpose, it's going to be hard to say it isn't primarily designed for putting.

**Lihu** · December 5, 2014

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/78494/make-an-illegal-driver-and-call-it-a-putter#post_1082364"] That's the key here, but I guess it's unreasonable to use your putter to drive. Or. . .is. . .it. . .? [URL=http://golftips.golfsmith.com/can-use-putter-fairway-20618.html]http://golftips.golfsmith.com/can-use-putter-fairway-20618.html[/URL] [/QUOTE] Clearly you can use it to drive. I don't think you can just take a driver and claim it is primarily for putting (which was my first thought). But if a creative manufacturer were to design a driving putter, that might make things interesting. And perhaps force a new ruling? You would have to design it in such a way as to claim it was primarily for putting. So you might want to make it somewhat upright, closer to the usual lie angle of a putter 70 degrees rather than the 58-60 typical of a driver. Maybe give it a grip that is considered a putter grip. Then make the head somewhat long and not too deep, give it a thin titanium face with the highest COR modern manufacturing will allow, and a center of mass suited for driving. As long as it looks like it is designed for putting, and is suited to that purpose, it's going to be hard to say it isn't primarily designed for putting.

I have a driving iron, but I'm pretty sure it's intended to be used to hit shorter. Maybe the driving putter could be used to layup on water 25 yards away with 230 yards carry, or something. . .

TallyWhacker · December 6, 2014

Quote:

what's to keep a golfer from carrying a longer than 48 inch driver (with a face less than 2.5 inches tall and the loft is less than 10 degrees) and just calling it a "putter".

Why would you want to do this? I'm not sure what advantage would be.

**Valleygolfer** · December 6, 2014

From the rule book: The shaft angle on such a putter could be required to be increased to as much as 25 degrees. In assessing whether a putter can be used effectively in a “vertical-pendulum” style manner, the combination of the following features should be considered: 1. length of shaft 2. position of shaft attachment to head 3. angle of shaft in toe-to-heel plane and front-to-back plane 4. shape and weight distribution of head 5. curvature and shape of sole 6. intent of the design That last part would ding you.

**acerimusdux** · December 7, 2014

Why would you want to do this? I'm not sure what advantage would be.

To hit the ball farther.

**Lihu** · December 7, 2014

[QUOTE name="TallyWhacker" url="/t/78494/make-an-illegal-driver-and-call-it-a-putter#post_1082736"] Why would you want to do this? I'm not sure what advantage would be. [/QUOTE] To hit the ball farther.

In most cases, a longer club could reduce your average distance. A longer club is much harder to hit well.

TallyWhacker · December 7, 2014

To hit the ball farther.

I am a newbie, but it seems that a longer club with less loft would be harder to hit far. Seems like physics would dictate that a shorter club would generate faster club head speed - like the closer you are to a hub, the faster your RPMs would be (smaller tires turn faster than bigger tires). I assume there is something that I don't understand here, and I get that this is a hypothetical, but it seems counter intuitive to me.

**Fourputt** · December 7, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerimusdux

To hit the ball farther.

I am a newbie, but it seems that a longer club with less loft would be harder to hit far. Seems like physics would dictate that a shorter club would generate faster club head speed - like the closer you are to a hub, the faster your RPMs would be (smaller tires turn faster than bigger tires). I assume there is something that I don't understand here, and I get that this is a hypothetical, but it seems counter intuitive to me.

All else being equal (meaning the relative revolutions per minute), the farther the distance from the center of rotation, the faster an object moves. However in golf, you also need to make solid contact, and the farther the clubhead is from the hands, the more difficult that task becomes. Most average players find that they gain both distance and accuracy (or at least they gain accuracy with no loss of distance) by shortening a 45" shaft to 44", or even 43" in some cases.

TallyWhacker · December 7, 2014

Thanks, Fourputt - I'm obviously not a physicist, either! Seems like it would take more force to propel a club head at the same speed on a longer shaft. I must not be thinking right.

I do get the control aspect, though. The reason I'm interested in this is because I've been hitting clubs 1" over standard. I'm 6'4", so, not huge, but taller than some, and I thought I would need longer clubs. As my swing has improved, though, I can see that I might appreciate a shorter club. I don't want to hi-jack tqcspup's thread, though, so I'll leave it at that.

Thanks for setting me straight - I still don't think the original premise of the thread is very applicable to most golfers, but it is always interesting seeing new ideas.

**Lihu** · December 7, 2014

Thanks, Fourputt - I'm obviously not a physicist, either! Seems like it would take more force to propel a club head at the same speed on a longer shaft. I must not be thinking right. I do get the control aspect, though. The reason I'm interested in this is because I've been hitting clubs 1" over standard. I'm 6'4", so, not huge, but taller than some, and I thought I would need longer clubs. As my swing has improved, though, I can see that I might appreciate a shorter club. I don't want to hi-jack tqcspup's thread, though, so I'll leave it at that. Thanks for setting me straight - I still don't think the original premise of the thread is very applicable to most golfers, but it is always interesting seeing new ideas.

6'4" is pretty tall. In your case, you also don't want to hunch too much either. Get statically fit.

**acerimusdux** · December 7, 2014

Thanks for setting me straight - I still don't think the original premise of the thread is very applicable to most golfers, but it is always interesting seeing new ideas.

Agree. The off the rack drivers are actually already too long for most golfers. If you look at top long drive competitors though, you will see they are mostly using the maximum allowed 48 inches.

But you don't generally see that even in top golfers; on the PGA tour for example, I think the average is still less than 45 inches. If there were an advantage to going longer, they would. This is why I thought the potential for getting around the COR limit was more important. For myself, I really don't want anyrhing more than 43 inches.

But I think the OP was envisioning one of these long drive types who could handle the additional length.

TallyWhacker · December 7, 2014

Probably good advice, Lihu. I'm kind of a cheapskate, though. I'm eyeballing a new set for next season. I'll probably go with standard length and see how that goes.

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Make an illegal driver and call it a "putter"?

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