How Would You Play It? (2nd Hole at Van Cortlandt Park)

Inspired by my fellow High Handicap New Yorker @RFKFREAK , I decided to add another "How Would You Play It" thread based on a hole that TOTALLY owns me. Considered one of the toughest holes in NYC, this hole is nicknamed "The Babe" after some guy that played baseball around these parts about a century ago. I've played this hole 8 times, and besides one bogey, I've only gotten TRIPLE or worse! I'd just like to hear people's opinions on this hole, especially if they have played it.

I usually play from the whites, but the yardage tool is from the tips so bear with me. The right is obviously OOB but the main thing you can't see from the photo is that there is a SEVERE downslope from the left rough into the left tree line. If you miss the fairway left, you're going to be dealing with some nasty lies.

This is about where the slope starts. Remember I'm playing from the whites so the blue dot is actually at 188 for me and the time I bogeyed the hole, I smartly laid up before it got dicey. Most other times I hit driver and end up OOB or in the mess on the left.

This is a very tight fairway too. I could hit my 5W (goes about 200 IF hit well) to enable a better approach shot, but it can be erratic so I'm probably better off hitting 4H and gaining 180-190 yds. From this point it's a little downhill and pretty open near the green. The lay up area on the right is decent condition so you can aim towards the right side to avoid the bunkers. So depending on the yardage, I might go 4H-4H-5W.

Let me know what you guys think!

Google Earth view from just forward of the white tees. The pins show where I'd propose hitting, not that I could pull it off!. The second shot would be my 3-hybrid, as I don't own a 5-wood, but I couldn't figure out how to customize the club names on the site I was using. This hole looks like you gotta just blast away and hope it goes straight. Any shot where you miss the fairway might add a stroke to your score, minimum. Looks like missing left is better than missing right (no OB, and at least a hope of hitting back to the fairway, advancing it forward.

Where is it that you get in trouble strategically on this hole? I think the plan looks straightforward- just long and straight, no problem, right? The execution is a different thing, of course.

At this point, the biggest obstacle is mental, since this is by far the least successful hole for me that I usually play.

Obviously the left side is less penal since it's not OOB, but there is a lot of tree roots, hardpan, weird grass growth and is usually trouble. If you barely miss the fairway on the right, it's not that bad, but I don't like aiming OOB. I TRY to play a draw if anything, but double crosses are common for me with driver. Another reason not to hit driver is because you're target is in the thinnest part of the fairway.

After I decided that hitting 3 4H's was a good plan and I thought I had conquered this hole mentally, the next time out I had a nice drive on 1 and fell victim to ego. Pushed a drive right into the left treeline and took 2 strokes to get out and probably still could have saved bogey but I got flustered and shanked a chip, 3 putted and carded a 9. While I've always considered myself a good mental athlete in other sports, I'm still not where I should be in the mental golf game. I guess what I'm wondering is if anyone has tips to overcome a hole that just OWNS you.

Oh yes, I've got a hole I've only played twice (country club invite), and it's 455 yards slight dogleg left. I have a double and a triple bogey on it, even though if I treated it like a par 5, I'd probably think i could par it fairly easily. It's the feeling that you need to be on in regulation that gets me to overswing. Ever tried playing irons like this below? Mentally, that's tough to do on a longish par 5.

It would leave a long approach, but maybe after two solid iron shots, it's best to play this as a 170-yard par 3? Probably only brings bogey into play. But where's the fun in that?!

I just learned about http://www.provisualizer.com on RFKFreak's thread. Love it. There are some cool features there too where you can look at all the major venues and Ryder Cup courses for the past a future years.  You can save your favorite courses there too. No login required.

If you want to send the link, I think that works too. I mapped only the 2nd hole here:

http://www.provisualizer.com/course.php?n=Cortlandt%20Park&c;=,,,,,,,,,,45443366,-82091551,9884,6437,1824,4414,6611,5515,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,&v;=2

Just click on 2D Planner or 3D Planner (if you have Google Earth installed). Then select the hole #2 on the right.

I think this may be one of those occasions where I go against the conventional wisdom of getting the ball as close to the hole as possible with each shot. A lot depends on how well or poorly I'm swinging the fairway woods and irons.

Since my misses are more than likely going to occur short, the 3w as my second shot is ill-advised. The chances of getting in trouble are greater using this option than they would be with using an 7i to get to what appears to be an unprotected green. I'd play this third shot being ok with it landing short of the green.

This is more or less what I was suggesting. I don't hit it as far as you so the clubs would be different, but hitting my 4H 3 times is probably the best approach FOR ME until I get more confidence with longer clubs at the range

Yes, it's short, but I appreciate the unique challenges of each hole more each time I play at Vanny. Each hole definitely has its own character.

It is short distance wise, I think around 6000. However it's laid out well and you have some right spaces. I moved out of NYC eight years ago, and I tend to remember the back 9 more. The last 4-5 holes when you go under the highway to finish are pretty neat.

454 from the red tees...... I checked the course. The tee is

I'll hit my drive off the tee and play it toward the left side of the fairway where it will fade right and land about 216 yds from the tee due to the difference in elevation of 12 feet. I'm not going to get the roll I'm used to unless the ground is hard. This hole will take three shots anyway, so I want to take that bunker on the right out of play. I'll hit my 3 hybrid for my second shot and I'll land it somewhere on the fairway about 190 yds from where my drive ended up. This will leave me a 50 yd lob shot onto the green. Looking at the groundside view, though, and seeing that the green drops off in the back I may simply use a pitching wedge and hit an easy knock down for a bump and run onto the small green.

We're both 20+ HDCP players. Some golf  holes "get inside our heads" and become hard to play.

If I was playing the hole from the whites , I would fade the ball against the left downhill slope. From there, I would either:

1. if drive is not too long, lay up short of where the trees creep in on the green line - about 180 yards out from green.
2. if drive carries longer longer, beyond the blue dot, hit a 7 wood and try to hit the downslope inside 200 yards.

If I end up about 180 yards out, going downhill , I would hit a 5i or 6i and try for the right edge of the green away from the bunkers. Ball should feed on.

I don't know how far you hit your driver. If this is a headcase problem, you might hit a 4H to stay in the fairway, out of the left rough, and then lay up to 180 yards out (see my option 1).

From there, hit a shot that will catch the right front corner and bounce on . Remember that that VCP was build in 1895, when a ground game was still a viable approach shot on many holes.

At my home course, we have a hole that is 480 yards uphill, with a goofy landing area of treelined OB left, and deep fairway bunkers and hazard right. Although at the distance is should be a birdie hole, if you blow your drive it's a disaster. I ended up getting pars and bogies going 4H + 4H + 7i (off flat before final uphill to green.)

The whole thing for you on VCP #2 and me on my par 5 is to get the confidence back. If we can get or bogies by playing conservatively and smartly, maybe we can get pars in the future.

A well hit drive for me is about 230 but I have hit 250+ on numerous ocassions. Problem is I have a two way miss with my driver so I only use it on 3-5 holes that are very wide open at that course. And yes, mental game will be my biggest area of concentration this year. Just read Zen Golf by Dr. Joseph Parent and am looking forward to trying out some of his techniques on the course.

For me, it looks like a pair of 3-woods will get me to 80-100 yards depending on the wind and how firm the fairways are.  Problem is, the 100-yard position looks like one of the narrower spots on the course.  It appears much wider (discounting the rough, looking mostly at trees) from 75-yards and in.  Laying back to 150 on a par-5 just seems pointless to me, so...

I'll probably hit driver up the left side.  If I hit my normal baby fade, I've got a green light and can hammer a 3-wood for my second to get as close as possible.  If I miss it will probably be a high hook which ends up in the next fairway over.  I have no problem getting the ball up in the air, so my second from there will be the longest club I can loft over the trees (or just play it up the left side).  Worst probable result is I have a shot which allows me to advance my second maybe 100 yards, and I'm looking at 225-250 in for my third.  From there I'm hoping for nGIR and a par.  If I hit the drive well, I'm blasting the 3-wood at the left greenside bunker for an easy par or possible birdie.

Driver 275-300.  3-wood 250 (plus any roll).  Wedge 25-75, depending on pin location and how much roll I got on the second shot.  If I hit my drive into a penalty area, I'm just hoping to advance it as far as possible on the next shot.

I tried provisualizer.com, which worked fine, but getting the pics to transfer to this thread didn't work well. Granted I an computer challenged.

UPDATE: I started playing this course from the back (only 6000) and actually parred this hole from 600 yard plus last November. Hit driver, 2h, 4h ending up just short of the green and got up and down with my 54 degree. Great feeling. Only had time for 9 but shot a 44