Hitting Off the Mat Compared to a Tight Lie

I am still not sure what to think about practicing irons using mats. People put the ball on the mat, without a tee and try to hit the mat after hitting the ball. A friend of mine who is a very good golfer told me that there is basically no difference between hitting off grass and mat, he says that if you hit the ball correctly, the mat has no effect on the quality of the hit and the swing. But isn't it like saying that hitting a ball that lies nice on fairway is the same and as difficult as hitting a ball that lies on hardpan? If there is a difference in technique and hardpan or tight lie is more difficult than  a nice lie on fairway, then a mat should be as difficult as harpan, as there is no grass to support the ball and lift it a bit and the soil is softer than the mat. To me hitting the ball nice off the mat and hitting the ball nice off grass is like day and night - how I feel it, even if mathematically the same thing happens. What do you think?

This. It's much easier to hit a ball off mats. If you're striking the ball well/correctly there's nothing wrong wit it. Less accomplished players will miss the feedback/poor results from a fat shot though.

I think depends on the type of may being used. Some mats are of the very "thin" lie variety, and others are like a "grassy" lie. As previously mention, the thinner the mat's synthetic surface, the easier it is to get a way with a fat shot. The taller the synthetic turf, the easier it is to "scoop" a shot. So both mats have their bad issues. Of the two, the mat with the smoother surface is the one to stay away from when ever possible. Especially for the golfer who is still trying to get a decent ball first impact. It's tougher to hit down, and through on the thinner surface with an iron.The one with the taller synthetic fibers is more acceptable to a downward, ball first swing/impact.

One thing I never do is hit balls off a smooth surface, thin lie mat that is sitting on a concrete slab. One bad, swing and the golfer risks physical injury, or damage to their club. If that type of mat is all that is available, that is day I practice my putting.

I hit off the smoother surface mats quite a bit, but I also tend hit most of my iron shots on the thin side. Also, there is usually sand under the mat, and it's a much smaller piece of mat. (6" X 6") and it will fly up in the air just like a real divot, out on the fairway.

I have also made a couple of these to hit off of. http://www.divothit.com/ for a more realistic iron shot.

Others in this thread have already made great points that I'm not going to parrot, so I'll add that one trick that I use on some mats when I'm practicing my iron striking is that I will pull the rubber tee peg out and use that hole as a divot to put the ball in and practice hitting down on the ball aggressively as I would if I caught a bad lie on the golf course. I find this gives pretty good feedback in terms of if you mishit it because the ball won't come out as cleanly as it would if you mishit it off of the flat part of the mat. There aren't grass ranges where I live so it's the best way for me to get slightly more realistic practice in. It's especially helpful, I find, on longer irons where making solid contact is most important.

The "fat" shot off a mat will still go a good distance, but anyone who has been playing a while will know they hit it fat. The ball won't go as far. Example I'll hit a clean 7 iron 145 carry, but a fat 7 iron will only carry to the 125 yd mark. And this is off the "tight lie" type mat.

So how does a tight lie work compared to a mat? Does a tight lie or hardpan tolerate fat shots like a mat?

no, the club will bounce more off true hardpan if its a little fat.  a tight lie is just that, the club will still take a divot, or slow down the club if you hit it fat.  the mat gives the least penal result of a fat shot.

possibly a naive or stupid question - what is the absolutely ideal position of the clubface once it touches the ball - is it already touching the mat the ball is sitting on, or not yet? if not yet, how high is it above the mat? I reckon after hitting the ball, the clubhead will keep descending into the mat, but the mat will prevent it from digging into it, and instead it will slide on the matt

the thing is, as I suppose, on a fairway, the ball is not sitting on the ground, but is a bit above the ground / that seems to make room for a tiny little mistake as the clubhead can go under the ball, a tiny bit, while on the mat the clubhead has nowhere to go / this seems to make grass a bit easier than a mat / the ball sitting right on the mat makes me nervous, while when I can see it is sitting in the grass, not on the ground, makes me relaxed somehow, and making a divot where it should be feels awesome / so now after taking a couple of nice shots off grass i want to practice on grass and dislike the mat practice

Yes, if you really chunk one off a mat, it will be obvious to you. However, if you're just slightly off, the club will slide into the ball, much like a drop kicked wood, and the shot will not be materially affected. I can typically tell when that happens but there's still a false sense of confidence because the ball is flying great. The opposite is true from a much-used range when there is a layer of about a quarter inch of grass atop a sand pile. I dislike those ranges too because the penalty for a slightly chunked swing is exaggerated from what you would encounter on the course. But, it does tend to make you bear down a little more to ensure you're connecting with the ball first.

Agreed. I can tell if I hit slightly behind the ball on a mat vs. when I have made ball first contact. You may not get penalized on distance as much as grass, but the feeling is quite different. The only problem I have with tight lie mats is that the club bounces a little after the strike vs. taking a little divot. The feeling can be a little jarring, especially with wedges.

My range uses 1 1/4" mats, you'd have to hit a really fat shot to feel any pain. These mats aren't much different than hitting off a well groomed fairway, so like was said earlier, the quality of the mat plays a big roll in how a shot feels. Hitting an iron shot that compresses the ball on these thick mats feels almost the same as hitting off grass, unless you tend to take DEEP divots.

I've hit off cheap, thin mats...never again.

The mats I have come across at driving ranges have thick, soft rubber basis, but the surface is nothing like grass, the're flat. So they are safe for the body, but feel absolutely different from what I feel when I make a divot in grass.

Also, some people keep saying that high handicappers like myself flip but as for practice swings, I usually can make a divot, with a practice swing. With a ball, it is more difficult. I am now practicing doing drills every day to make the body remember the position of the shaft at impact, so I hit down on the ball and don't flip. After a month of these everyday drills, I hope the body will remember a bit of this trick.

The mats I spoke of, have a rather long and dense artificial type turf on them, so it's close to hitting off short thick grass. RE your practice swing and taking a divot..WELCOME to most everyone's world...lol I'm just now getting to where I take a slight divot with my hybrids, ball flight is high, and goes much farther than before. In my case my divot gets smaller/shallower with my 6i, I generally sweep my 5 and 4i, which by the way, still need some work.

Keep at it, and maybe take a look at key #3 on the 5 simple keys site, i.e. Keeping a flat left wrist (for righty's)

just a side note, it is completely possible, and not all that difficult, to take a divot and still flip.  just ask me, i know from experience.

So how is it possible to flip and still take a well placed divot? It doesn't make much sense, but I believe it is possible.

I don't think he meant the divot was well placed. If anything, flipping, as I'm understanding the term, would lead to more fat shots with divots behind the ball.