Jump to content
IGNORED

Opponent picked up my ball ball in match play?


JodieMudd
Note: This thread is 3313 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

anyone help me with the rule on this? Many years ago i was playing in the national final of an amateur matchplay event. i was 2 or 3 up at the time and we were on a par 3 where i received a stroke. I hit it short of the green, chipped up to about 10 feet and marked my ball. My opponent had hit the green and then holed his birdie put from about 20 feet. He then proceeded to pick up my ball marker (out of courtesy i believe) thinking he had won the hole. I pointed out that i still had a put for a par - net 2. Only then did he realise his mistake. Neither of us knew the rule so we both agreed that the marker be replaced where we thought it was originally. I putted out, missed and lost the hole. The match ended up going to extra holes and i eventually lost, losing the opportunity to a free holiday in spain to play the finals. I always wondered what the actual rule is in such circumstances and whether or not i had made the wrong decision in the circumstances on that par 3. Can anyone help, many thanks
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Quote:
Originally Posted by JodieMudd View Post

Many years ago i was playing in the national final of an amateur matchplay event. i was 2 or 3 up at the time and we were on a par 3 where i received a stroke. I hit it short of the green, chipped up to about 10 feet and marked my ball. My opponent had hit the green and then holed his birdie put from about 20 feet. He then proceeded to pick up my ball marker (out of courtesy i believe) thinking he had won the hole. I pointed out that i still had a put for a par - net 2. Only then did he realise his mistake.
Neither of us knew the rule so we both agreed that the marker be replaced where we thought it was originally. I putted out, missed and lost the hole.

The match ended up going to extra holes and i eventually lost, losing the opportunity to a free holiday in spain to play the finals.

Rule 18-3 b:

Quote:

If, other than during search for a player’s ball, an opponent, his caddie or his equipment moves the ball, touches it purposely or causes it to move, except as otherwise provided in the Rules, the opponent incurs a penalty of one stroke. If the ball is moved, it must be replaced.

So you did correctly, but your opponent should have added one penalty stroke. So the hole result would have been draw. Too bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Ouch. It's also worth noting for those that might not know, that in match play, if you don't know the rule, but agree on how to proceed, as you did, the result stands.

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Ouch. It's also worth noting for those that might not know, that in match play, if you don't know the rule, but agree on how to proceed, as you did, the result stands.

It really pays to know the rules, especially if you are going to play in competitions.  This is a case where the OP lost out on a great opportunity because he didn't know a fairly basic rule of match play.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

It really pays to know the rules, especially if you are going to play in competitions.  This is a case where the OP lost out on a great opportunity because he didn't know a fairly basic rule of match play.

Yep! It's also easy to carry a copy of the rules with you, and/or bookmark the rules on your smart phone. No more than 2 minutes to find/confirm a straight forward rule like this....

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Rule 18-3 b:

So you did correctly, but your opponent should have added one penalty stroke. So the hole result would have been draw. Too bad.

Right outcome but not quite the right way of reaching it.  The player is left with a putt for a half.  If the opponent simply  added a penalty stroke and then the player 3 putted (it happens!) the opponent  would have won the hole.  That can't happen because the moment the opponent in the OP's description incurred the penalty for lifting the marker, the hole was halved.  The player did not even have to putt.   See Rule 2-2

When a player has holed out and his opponent has been left with a stroke for the half, if the player subsequently incurs a penalty, the hole is halved.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


This is the appropriate decision as it was the marker that was picked up not the ball.

2-4/5

Whether Lifting Opponent's Ball-Marker Is Concession of Next Stroke

Q. In a match, A believing he has won a hole picks up the coin marking the position of his opponent B's ball. In fact B had a putt to halve the hole. Should the picking up of B's ball-marker be considered a concession of B's next stroke?

A. No. In equity (Rule 1-4 ), A should be penalized one stroke. Therefore, under the second paragraph of Rule 2-2 the hole is automatically halved.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Whether Lifting Opponent's Ball-Marker Is Concession of Next Stroke

Q.In a match, A believing he has won a hole picks up the coin marking the position of his opponent B's ball. In fact B had a putt to halve the hole. Should the picking up of B's ball-marker be considered a concession of B's next stroke?

A.No. In equity (Rule 1-4), A should be penalized one stroke. Therefore, under the second paragraph of Rule 2-2 the hole is automatically halved.

thank you all very much for the replies. Its very interesting to know and ive always wondered all these years. when it happend we were both unsure of the rule and agreed at that point that we would take advice after the round and if we had made the wrong decision it would be taken into account. I just felt the other guy won fair and square and didnt feel any inclination to pursue it after i had lost, free holiday or no free holiday. (I mean who wants to play in La Manga anyway lol.... (i say crying into my coffee mug) Interesting that someone mentioned that if we dont know the rule whatever decision is made at the time stands, which means basically not knowing the rule penalised me in that situation and even had we decided to play by the rules after finishing the round, the very fact we had made a decision between us at the time would have meant the result would have still gone in his favour.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulesman

This is the appropriate decision as it was the marker that was picked up not the ball.

2-4/5

Whether Lifting Opponent's Ball-Marker Is Concession of Next Stroke

Q.In a match, A believing he has won a hole picks up the coin marking the position of his opponent B's ball. In fact B had a putt to halve the hole. Should the picking up of B's ball-marker be considered a concession of B's next stroke?

A.No. In equity (Rule 1-4), A should be penalized one stroke. Therefore, under the second paragraph of Rule 2-2 the hole is automatically halved.

thank you all very much for the replies. Its very interesting to know and ive always wondered all these years.

when it happend we were both unsure of the rule and agreed at that point that we would take advice after the round and if we had made the wrong decision it would be taken into account. I just felt the other guy won fair and square and didnt feel any inclination to pursue it after i had lost, free holiday or no free holiday. (I mean who wants to play in La Manga anyway lol.... (i say crying into my coffee mug)

Interesting that someone mentioned that if we dont know the rule whatever decision is made at the time stands, which means basically not knowing the rule penalised me in that situation and even had we decided to play by the rules after finishing the round, the very fact we had made a decision between us at the time would have meant the result would have still gone in his favour.

The only way that could be changed is if you had disagreed with his procedure and made a claim before anyone played from the next tee.  Then the claim could have been taken to the committee for a determination.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

See Rule 2-2

When a player has holed out and his opponent has been left with a stroke for the half, if the player subsequently incurs a penalty, the hole is halved.

This is a good catch (as is 2-4/5). I missed that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I would have let the concession stand. When a stroke is conceded, it is conceded. By remarking, everything with the way you approach the putt has changed. That would have resulted in the halve, as it should have by the rules. In a match play event earlier this year, I had to give a stroke on a difficult par 4. I pulled my driver into the trees only 50 yards off the tee. My opponent crushes his drive. I heard him laughing as he pulled away. I punch out. I proceed to hit a great 3 wood about 120 from the green. He hits a good approach just short of the green in two. I'm lying 3 and hit my approach inside 3 feet. He gives me the putt for a 5 thinking he's got the hole won. He proceeds to shank the ball into a bunker, fly it almost over the green, and 2 more putts leaving him about a 2 1/2 foot putt for 6. It was about the same length as mine. He expected me to give it to him. Being the prick I am, I said nothing. He missed the putt and lost the hole. He was pissed. I wouldn't have given me the 2 1/2 foot putt I had, but he did. I didn't give him the 2 1/2 foot breaking putt he had.

Driver.......Ping K15 9.5* stiff 3 wood.....Ping K15 16* stiff 5 wood.....Ping K15 19* stiff 4 Hybrid...Cleveland Gliderail 23* stiff 5 - PW......Pinhawk SL GW...........Tommy Armour 52* SW...........Tommy Armour 56* LW...........Tommy Armour 60* FW...........Diamond Tour 68* Putter.......Golfsmith Dyna Mite Ball..........Volvik Vista iV Green Bag..........Bennington Quiet Organizer Shoes.... ..Crocs

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I would have let the concession stand. When a stroke is conceded, it is conceded. By remarking, everything with the way you approach the putt has changed. That would have resulted in the halve, as it should have by the rules......

I think you have misunderstood.  There was no concession involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Interesting question, thank you to those who clarified the rules. To be honest though, if I'd be the fellow who mistakenly picked up my opponent's ball, I'd have probably conceded the hole when the mistake was realized, tournament or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I think you have misunderstood.  There was no concession involved.

Picking up someone's marker is conceding the stroke. There is no way for the person to replace their ball on the green.

Driver.......Ping K15 9.5* stiff 3 wood.....Ping K15 16* stiff 5 wood.....Ping K15 19* stiff 4 Hybrid...Cleveland Gliderail 23* stiff 5 - PW......Pinhawk SL GW...........Tommy Armour 52* SW...........Tommy Armour 56* LW...........Tommy Armour 60* FW...........Diamond Tour 68* Putter.......Golfsmith Dyna Mite Ball..........Volvik Vista iV Green Bag..........Bennington Quiet Organizer Shoes.... ..Crocs

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator
Picking up someone's marker is conceding the stroke. There is no way for the person to replace their ball on the green.

Scroll up to Post #7 .

It appears you are incorrect. Please read threads before commenting. This thread isn't all that long.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Picking up someone's marker is conceding the stroke. There is no way for the person to replace their ball on the green.

As iacas points out,  that's just plain wrong as the Decision quoted in Post #7 told you.  The way you replace your ball  or your marker is to put it down on the ground as nearly as possible to where the marker had been.  .

Link to comment
Share on other sites


As iacas points out,  that's just plain wrong as the Decision quoted in Post #7 told you.  The way you replace your ball  or your marker is to put it down on the ground as nearly as possible to where the marker had been.  .

I saw post#7. In match play, who cares if a stroke was assessed. The hole was halved. Just another interpretation that makes some of the interpretations stupid. You pick up a marker you concede the putt. Doesn't matter. And there is no replacing the ball when the marker is picked up. What if I say it was a one footer and you say it was a 2 footer. There's no winning that argument. KISS

Driver.......Ping K15 9.5* stiff 3 wood.....Ping K15 16* stiff 5 wood.....Ping K15 19* stiff 4 Hybrid...Cleveland Gliderail 23* stiff 5 - PW......Pinhawk SL GW...........Tommy Armour 52* SW...........Tommy Armour 56* LW...........Tommy Armour 60* FW...........Diamond Tour 68* Putter.......Golfsmith Dyna Mite Ball..........Volvik Vista iV Green Bag..........Bennington Quiet Organizer Shoes.... ..Crocs

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I saw post#7. In match play, who cares if a stroke was assessed. The hole was halved. Just another interpretation that makes some of the interpretations stupid. You pick up a marker you concede the putt. Doesn't matter. And there is no replacing the ball when the marker is picked up. What if I say it was a one footer and you say it was a 2 footer. There's no winning that argument.

KISS

Well, you seem content to invent your own rules and  are not prepared to accept the real rules when explained to you.  Not much point in frequenting a rules forum, is there?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 3313 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • Day 82: 3/18/24 Tried a Stack session but could not certify my warmup. Finished with indoor chips and putting. 
    • Day 96 (18 Mar 24) - Continued work with the Divot Board with the GW and hard foam balls.  Focused on small target/small miss…setup to hit target about 30yds out - success if it hit within 6’ circle of target, fail if outside.  Had decent success averaging about 3 out of 4 (hitting in groups of four).  
    • Wordle 1,003 3/6 🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩⬜🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩   felt a little like Wyndham when the first three green and I began the fist pump…
    • I'm relieved someone finally defined hiking. I was giddy when I saw these new TPI videos a day or so after they dropped. Very easy to understand the problem and solution the way they have presented it. Been working on fixing this for about a year and a half now. It's nice to be able to call it something so communication becomes easy.  I was working on more lateral and up too, but just having someone define it clearly in video form was so helpful for me to continue confidently with what I thought was wrong and how I had to fix it.  My conceptual error here was just trying to rotate like a tour pro but without including the necessary forward pressure/weight shift associated with enough lateral and upward motion of the pelvis.  This video is great too, as is Greg Rose.
    • Day 2.    couple mins of rolling putts end over end.    10 mins of Slow, mirror work, working on starting the downswing and impact wrist positions. Hit a couple balls into the net after.    Then finished with a couple chips to see if I could repeat what I worked on yesterday. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...