New Game improvement club trends

**RussUK** · April 2, 2015

I have just been reading a club test carried out by Todays Golfer magazine on this years crop of GI and SGI clubs and was quite suprised by what the manufacturers are creating.

Here's the thing, I play Wilson Staff Di9 irons and before they were released there were people say a 32 deg 7 iron was ridiculous. The new SGI offering from Yonex has a 29 deg 7 iron while the majority of the others from the likes of Callaway, Cobra et al are about 30 deg.

2 things

1. This now puts my Di9's in the GI bracket loft wise (most were 32deg)

2. I can hit my 7 about 160-165 on a good day. The 12hcp that was on the test was hitting the cally big bertha SGI 185yds.

With more and more pro's using GI irons (there is a JPX850 forged GI for e.g.) which they could probably hit as far as the above SGI, could there be a time when the longer hybrids or even FW's get dropped?

As a high handicapper, im all for more distance but surely there has to be a point where enough is enough?

I will get down off my soap box now

**dbuck** · April 2, 2015

It is all relative. The Yonex 7 iron of which you speak is basically a 5 iron with a 7 stamped on it. Keep hitting your Di9's and as long as you know which one of those it takes to go 150 yards, and your gaps are good, you are good to go.

I have a Titleist DCI set from the early 90's. The 16* 1 iron has a fairly deep cavity. If you made a little cover over that cavity, it would basically be today's 2 hybrid. There will continue to be hybrids and fairways until they come up with something truly better. If you can't hit a 39" 19*

2 iron, calling it a 5 iron won't make it easier to hit. You could wind up with an iron set that starts with an 8 iron and has 6 wedges. LOL.

You can try my current favorite method, vintage golf. I don't care what number is on the end of the club as long as I know what I need from 150.

**Shindig** · April 2, 2015

I'm not quite as adamantly against the loft inflation as I used to be, but I really love what the Ben Hogan golf company did with a recent irons offering (the Fort Worth 15 set) -- they stamped the loft on it. Pick some subset of [20, 47] to form a set. The wedges then cover [48, 63].

**Lihu** · April 2, 2015

I have just been reading a club test carried out by Todays Golfer magazine on this years crop of GI and SGI clubs and was quite suprised by what the manufacturers are creating.

Here's the thing, I play Wilson Staff Di9 irons and before they were released there were people say a 32 deg 7 iron was ridiculous. The new SGI offering from Yonex has a 29 deg 7 iron while the majority of the others from the likes of Callaway, Cobra et al are about 30 deg.

2 things
1. This now puts my Di9's in the GI bracket loft wise (most were 32deg)
2. I can hit my 7 about 160-165 on a good day. The 12hcp that was on the test was hitting the cally big bertha SGI 185yds.

With more and more pro's using GI irons (there is a JPX850 forged GI for e.g.) which they could probably hit as far as the above SGI, could there be a time when the longer hybrids or even FW's get dropped?

As a high handicapper, im all for more distance but surely there has to be a point where enough is enough?

I will get down off my soap box now

Not just a soap box argument, I think it's a much more expensive proposition than having a normal set of clubs.

It is all relative. The Yonex 7 iron of which you speak is basically a 5 iron with a 7 stamped on it. Keep hitting your Di9's and as long as you know which one of those it takes to go 150 yards, and your gaps are good, you are good to go.

I have a Titleist DCI set from the early 90's. The 16* 1 iron has a fairly deep cavity. If you made a little cover over that cavity, it would basically be today's 2 hybrid. There will continue to be hybrids and fairways until they come up with something truly better. If you can't hit a 39" 19*
2 iron, calling it a 5 iron won't make it easier to hit. You could wind up with an iron set that starts with an 8 iron and has 6 wedges. LOL.

You can try my current favorite method, vintage golf. I don't care what number is on the end of the club as long as I know what I need from 150.

The only other drawback I can see of having a 7i that goes 185 yards is the gaps at the shorter distances. It's like having a bag of 8i to 1i clubs. I think it would be harder to get tighter distances around 150 yards. For instance, my current clubs carry about PW (49 degrees) 130, 9i (45 degrees) 145, 8i (41 degrees) 155, 7i (37 degrees) 165, 6i (33 degrees) 175, 5i (29 degrees) 185, 4i (25 degrees) 195, 3i (maybe 21 degrees?) 200-ish (I can't really hit this club).

If my 7i started off at a loft of 30 degrees with a hotter face, it might be like my current 5i or my 185 carry club. This somehow implies that my 8i would go 175, 9i about 165 and PW 155. This is not that good a spread of distances.

My driver is about 245 on average and sometimes more depending upon the course conditions and my condition, and the typical par 4 hole for me is around 390 yards (e.g., [301 398 447 406 305 410 341 403 466 358 393 441]). If I subtract my drive from 390 I'm left with 145 which is currently my 9i. So, I get to play approached from 60/52 degrees to 8i. Whereas, if my set of clubs starts 2 clubs stronger then my PW would be about my 150 club. I would need to eliminate anything longer than the 5i or even 6i, and add a bunch of wedges.

I see no reason to get these clubs, except for added forgiveness. At and inside 150 yards, many golfers would end up needing to buy a separate set of wedges anyway.

**tefunk** · April 2, 2015

To me, it seems to all be driven from a sales & marketing perspective. - every manufacturer wants to say their clubs go the farthest... One way to make them go farther is the strengthen the loft. - what happens when the PW winds up having a loft the same as a traditional 7i or 8i? The manufacturers have an opportunity to sell more wedges. Personally... I see no need to mess with the lofts. I don't need to hit my 7i 185... Because I have a 6i for that

**MrFlipper** · April 2, 2015

To me, it seems to all be driven from a sales & marketing perspective.

- every manufacturer wants to say their clubs go the farthest... One way to make them go farther is the strengthen the loft.

- what happens when the PW winds up having a loft the same as a traditional 7i or 8i? The manufacturers have an opportunity to sell more wedges.

Personally... I see no need to mess with the lofts. I don't need to hit my 7i 185... Because I have a 6i for that

I used to think that too, but I had a rude awakening. One of my golfing buddies, who used to have trajectories all over the place, just got some RSI 1's. He hits the 5 iron about the same distance and trajectory as I hit my old forged mid 90's 3 iron. Maybe they are similar lofts but his center of gravity is lower, the face is way hotter, and its just a way easier club to hit. It's not just a loft thing---

If I got those clubs (and I'm thinking) maybe my set would be 4-AW rather than 3-SW now (plus 56 degree I have now). Gaps are still filled with same number of clubs, right?

I have made my golf life too difficult for too long with old technology. I'm okay that I'm not a real player if I don't have blades. Might as well enjoy the game as much as I can

**billchao** · April 2, 2015

I used to think that too, but I had a rude awakening. One of my golfing buddies, who used to have trajectories all over the place, just got some RSI 1's. He hits the 5 iron about the same distance and trajectory as I hit my old forged mid 90's 3 iron. Maybe they are similar lofts but his center of gravity is lower, the face is way hotter, and its just a way easier club to hit. It's not just a loft thing---

If I got those clubs (and I'm thinking) maybe my set would be 4-AW rather than 3-SW now (plus 56 degree I have now). Gaps are still filled with same number of clubs, right?

You're right, on both counts. Modern iron technology is a lot more than just stamping a different number on a club and claiming that it's longer. Lofts have gotten stronger partly due to the CoG getting lower, so the clubs don't launch the ball too high with too much spin.

The fact that your friend's 5 iron is lower lofted than your 5 iron doesn't really mean a whole lot when you consider the fact that his 5 iron goes as far as your 3 iron and is easier to hit.

**Lihu** · April 2, 2015

I used to think that too, but I had a rude awakening. One of my golfing buddies, who used to have trajectories all over the place, just got some RSI 1's. He hits the 5 iron about the same distance and trajectory as I hit my old forged mid 90's 3 iron. Maybe they are similar lofts but his center of gravity is lower, the face is way hotter, and its just a way easier club to hit. It's not just a loft thing---

If I got those clubs (and I'm thinking) maybe my set would be 4-AW rather than 3-SW now (plus 56 degree I have now). Gaps are still filled with same number of clubs, right?

I have made my golf life too difficult for too long with old technology. I'm okay that I'm not a real player if I don't have blades. Might as well enjoy the game as much as I can

You're right, on both counts. Modern iron technology is a lot more than just stamping a different number on a club and claiming that it's longer. Lofts have gotten stronger partly due to the CoG getting lower, so the clubs don't launch the ball too high with too much spin.

The fact that your friend's 5 iron is lower lofted than your 5 iron doesn't really mean a whole lot when you consider the fact that his 5 iron goes as far as your 3 iron and is easier to hit.

I think the only takeaway from your statements is that the newer irons are much easier to hit, and I agree it also means a lot for score.

However, I just took my son's old Ping i20 6i for a spin on the course. The way I miss with a shank, it is not easier to hit. I do admit that the shots were straighter and more tightly dispersed than my MP-32 6i. The i20 6i is about the same distance as my MP-32 5i distance. It might also have added a little more "spin", but both clubs didn't stick the green I was using for testing.

To me, it seems to all be driven from a sales & marketing perspective.

- every manufacturer wants to say their clubs go the farthest... One way to make them go farther is the strengthen the loft.

- what happens when the PW winds up having a loft the same as a traditional 7i or 8i? The manufacturers have an opportunity to sell more wedges.

Personally... I see no need to mess with the lofts. I don't need to hit my 7i 185... Because I have a 6i for that

I agree with this., except for me it's my 5i. . .

**billchao** · April 2, 2015

However, I just took my son's old Ping i20 6i for a spin on the course. The way I miss with a shank, it is not easier to hit.

What can a conforming iron possibly do about a shank? This has nothing to do with how easy a club is to hit.

I do admit that the shots were straighter and more tightly dispersed than my MP-32 6i. The i20 6i is about the same distance as my MP-32 5i distance.

The newer 6 iron is more tightly dispersed than the older 6 iron, and goes an entire club longer? You've just proved my point.

**Lihu** · April 2, 2015

What can a conforming iron possibly do about a shank? This has nothing to do with how easy a club is to hit.

The newer 6 iron is more tightly dispersed than the older 6 iron, and goes an entire club longer? You've just proved my point.

????

You're right, on both counts. Modern iron technology is a lot more than just stamping a different number on a club and claiming that it's longer. Lofts have gotten stronger partly due to the CoG getting lower, so the clubs don't launch the ball too high with too much spin.

The fact that your friend's 5 iron is lower lofted than your 5 iron doesn't really mean a whole lot when you consider the fact that his 5 iron goes as far as your 3 iron and is easier to hit.

I used to think that too, but I had a rude awakening. One of my golfing buddies, who used to have trajectories all over the place, just got some RSI 1's. He hits the 5 iron about the same distance and trajectory as I hit my old forged mid 90's 3 iron. Maybe they are similar lofts but his center of gravity is lower, the face is way hotter, and its just a way easier club to hit. It's not just a loft thing---

If I got those clubs (and I'm thinking) maybe my set would be 4-AW rather than 3-SW now (plus 56 degree I have now). Gaps are still filled with same number of clubs, right?

I have made my golf life too difficult for too long with old technology. I'm okay that I'm not a real player if I don't have blades. Might as well enjoy the game as much as I can

Well that's the main thing I agreed with you on, otherwise what is the advantage of modern clubs? They're easier to hig higher and straighter.

**newtogolf** · April 3, 2015

I'm not quite as adamantly against the loft inflation as I used to be, but I really love what the Ben Hogan golf company did with a recent irons offering (the Fort Worth 15 set) -- they stamped the loft on it. Pick some subset of [20, 47] to form a set. The wedges then cover [48, 63].

I agree and am glad it was done under the Ben Hogan name (actually Scor Golf). We had a thread about this a while ago on here and I took some heat for suggesting the lofts be stamped on the club in place of the numbers as it makes more sense to me. It works for wedges, so no reason it wouldn't work for irons.

**billchao** · April 3, 2015

Well that's the main thing I agreed with you on, otherwise what is the advantage of modern clubs? They're easier to hig higher and straighter.

It appears that I misunderstood what you were saying. :doh:

**danL** · April 3, 2015

I admit I'm far from a great ball striker but I've never had a problem getting balls in the air, with SGI clubs I launch them way too high and lose distance. I also like to be able to keep the flight down if I need to because my skill level puts me under trees a fair amount so I've gotten pretty good at a low punch that runs up towards the green. I was never able to pull those shots off with my last set of deep cavities. I do wish I had a lower COG when I top the ball and it only gets about 25ft off the ground, but those have gotten a lot less common. Distances don't bother me much. As long as I have an iron that carries about 180 then I'm good because I don't go for par 5s in 2 unless it's begging for it.

**Lihu** · April 3, 2015

It appears that I misunderstood what you were saying.

Good that you did after my spelling error. I meant to write "hit" not "hig". Equally,

My language skills are not the best, but at least we understand each other now.

**tefunk** · April 6, 2015

... - what happens when the PW winds up having a loft the same as a traditional 7i or 8i? The manufacturers have an opportunity to sell more wedges. Personally... I see no need to mess with the lofts. I don't need to hit my 7i 185... Because I have a 6i for that

So on the PGA's website they have the "what's in the bag" (or something like that) section where they show what is in PGA & LPGA bags... Out of curiosity I take take a look at it every once in a while... I've noticed several players who bag, e.g. a 3-9i and then a 48 degree wedge (I.e. a traditional PW). Just found it interesting (although not too shocking) and relevant to this discussion...

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