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Minimum Distance to be Scratch


GolfLug
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..considering a 6,500 yard course (~72 rating), what is a minimum threshold distance you MUST hit your average drive to be a scratch player regardless of how long or accurate you are with rest of your clubs.

I am sure a 250 yard average (not necessarily FIR) would be considered sufficient by most (as in the 'scratch' definition by USGA). Maybe not. But how about 235 or 220 or even 210?

I think for a 6,500 yard course the cutoff is about 240 yards even if you hit more than 80% FIRs. Any less than that there would be too many approach shots with 6 irons and above to hit enough greens to be a par or better shooter 10 times out 20.

Opinions? Are there examples of the 'shorter' hitter that you know of is a scratch on a course/courses only of 6,500 yard or longer length?

Vishal S.

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I was going to write up an entire thing, but the LPGA drives 246 on average and you can use the LPGA distance chart to map out the rest of the shots.

The average LPGA can probably play to a 3 to 4 male handicap? Of course their putting is a lot better, so maybe scratch on certain courses?

BTW, is a CR of 74 going to be only 6500 yards, that seems short?

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BTW, is a CR of 74 going to be only 6500 yards?

I guess it's plausible but I've never seen one.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

BTW, is a CR of 74 going to be only 6500 yards?

I guess it's plausible but I've never seen one.

Only if you play Oakmont from the Blue tees 6,436 134/74

http://www.oakmont-countryclub.org/default.aspx?p=CourseScoreCard&vnf;=&ssid;=&view;=&crsID;=667

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As others have said, there are no 6,500 yard courses out there that rate up much higher than 72.

My home course is about 6,450 and the longest par 4 is 423 yards. The longest par 5 is 540 yards. In theory, both would be reachable in regulation for a guy who hits it 225 yards off the tee. Of course, being that short puts a lot of stress on the rest of your game, but in theory I suppose that it's possible.

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This is a little bit shorter than your 6500... A narrow, difficult course for it's length.  If you're long but not terrible accurate you'll have a bunch of penalty strokes.  If you're really straight, even short and straight, the course becomes much easier.

I think someone who hit their average drive to 210 yards, and hit their shots straight, and had the rest of their game together, they could get to scratch if this was their home course.  Many of the par 4s and 5s you'd have an approach shot with a wedge or short iron.

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This is a little bit shorter than your 6500... A narrow, difficult course for it's length.  If you're long but not terrible accurate you'll have a bunch of penalty strokes.  If you're really straight, even short and straight, the course becomes much easier.

I think someone who hit their average drive to 210 yards, and hit their shots straight, and had the rest of their game together, they could get to scratch if this was their home course.  Most of the par 4s and 5s you'd have an approach shot with a wedge or short iron.

Though 210 is possible it is on the extreme end of things. For the course you're showing to have the CR it has at 6339 yards I figure it has to have some small and elevated greens. Very tough to stop the ball on the green with longer clubs and low SS even if you hit very straight.

Edit: Just looked up that Renee Skidmore of Big Break fame has the lowest average driving distance on the Symetra Tour at 210. Scoring average of 74.941

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Though 210 is possible it is on the extreme end of things. For the course you're showing to have the CR it has at 6339 yards I figure it has to have some small and elevated greens. Very tough to stop the ball on the green with longer clubs and low SS even if you hit very straight.

Edit: Just looked up that Renee Skidmore of Big Break fame has the lowest average driving distance on the Symetra Tour at 210. Scoring average of 74.941

It's Balboa Park Golf Course in San Diego.  It does have small greens, there are a lot of places where if you miss the small green or narrow fairway by just a little bit, you'll be in a hazard or OB.

Good views though.  The par 5 16th:

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Well . .I don't know first hand, the longest course I regularly play at is just over 5800 from my tees . . . but I found this handy chart over at:

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2011/05/usga-pga-golfers-are-playing-w.html

According to it, you need more than 250 off the tee for 6500 yards.

Driver Distance        Recommended 18-Hole Yardages

PGA Tour Professional        7,600-7,900

300                7,150-7,400

275                6,700-6,900

250                6,200-6,400

225                5,800 -6,000

200                5,200-5,400

175                4,400-4,600

150                3,500-3,700

125                2,800-3,000

100                2,100-2,300

LPGA plays courses that are longer than 6400 and 250 yards is a solid avg driving distance for them.

I fit right in the chart - with a driving distance of 225 (not avg, though), I don't feel like driving distance is a problem for me on a 5800 yard course.  Everything else is a problem for me, lol, but I'm good with driving distance.

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The average LPGA can probably play to a 3 to 4 male handicap? Of course their putting is a lot better, so maybe scratch on certain courses?

BTW, is a CR of 74 going to be only 6500 yards, that seems short?

I respectfully disagree.................

LPGA Pro's playing 6500yd tees............they're much better than you think and by a large margin!!!!!  Even the journey player you rarely see on TV on Sundays plays well into the PLUS HC territory....

With winning final scores typically 10-15 under par............and bottom of the field that make the cut hovering around level par after 72 holes.   A 3-4HC male golfer playing the same 6500yd tees would be 20+ over par after the same 72 holes on average.

I'm a 3-4HC and played my best golf of the year just recently..........My most recent 72 holes also included my low round of 2015!!!!

6564yds.....72.5CR...137Slope............................81-79-76-72= 20 over par

I was +16 after 36 holes..........LOL, I'm pretty sure I would have missed the cut by a HUGE MARGIN!!!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

The average LPGA can probably play to a 3 to 4 male handicap? Of course their putting is a lot better, so maybe scratch on certain courses?

BTW, is a CR of 74 going to be only 6500 yards, that seems short?

LPGA Pro's playing 6500yd tees............they're much better than you think and by a large margin!!!!!  Even the journey player you rarely see on TV on Sundays plays well into the PLUS HC territory....

With winning final scores typically 10-15 under par............and bottom of the field that make the cut hovering around level par after 72 holes.

A 3-4HC male golfer playing the same 6500yd tees would be 20+ over par after the same 72 holes on average.   A 3-4HC playing their very best golf over 72 holes would do well to finish at 12+ over par.

Yeah, I was kind of wondering about that. It makes sense as most of the LPGA players have a really good short game, as well as consistency and accuracy.

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The lady golfers can play  ...and we need to give them props!    I know they can golf circles around me and twice on Sunday!

What's in Paul's Bag:
- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Driver
- Big Bertha Alpha 815 3-wood
- Callaway Razr Fit 5-wood
- Callaway Big Bertha 4-5 Rescue Clubs
-- Mizuno Mx-25 six iron-gap wedge
- Mizuno Mp-T4 56degree SW
- Mizuno Mp-T11 60degree SW
- Putter- Ping Cadence Ketsch

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The average LPGA can probably play to a 3 to 4 male handicap? Of course their putting is a lot better, so maybe scratch on certain courses?

Their putting is not better than a male scratch golfer, and the average LPGA Tour player is roughly equivalent to a male scratch player.

Big ol' thread on that right here:

LPGA Pro's playing 6500yd tees............they're much better than you think and by a large margin!!!!!  Even the journey player you rarely see on TV on Sundays plays well into the PLUS HC territory....

Plus territory for women, yes. They're not significantly better than a male scratch golfer.

OT for this thread, though.


On the topic of this thread… 240 or so, and that's with better-than-average other parts of your game.

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Their putting is not better than a male scratch golfer, and the average LPGA Tour player is roughly equivalent to a male scratch player.

Big ol' thread on that right here:

Plus territory for women, yes. They're not significantly better than a male scratch golfer.

OT for this thread, though.

On the topic of this thread… 240 or so, and that's with better-than-average other parts of your game.

You're a teacher, but I strongly disagree and you leave me scratching my head.   I've played scratch golf in the past and below par rounds are not the norm.  In fact, a scratch golfer playing 6500yd tees will average 75-76 and need to play extremely well to make a single cut.    You're WAAAAY OFF base......   are you getting your stats from Spanky?  (President of the He-Man woman haters club)

A male golfer will need to be a +1-2 to compete on the LPGA..........

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What's in Paul's Bag:
- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Driver
- Big Bertha Alpha 815 3-wood
- Callaway Razr Fit 5-wood
- Callaway Big Bertha 4-5 Rescue Clubs
-- Mizuno Mx-25 six iron-gap wedge
- Mizuno Mp-T4 56degree SW
- Mizuno Mp-T11 60degree SW
- Putter- Ping Cadence Ketsch

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You're a teacher, but I strongly disagree and you leave me scratching my head.

Then go to the other thread and argue there. I've taught LPGA Tour players. I've taught scratch golfers. There's a lot more to it than that… in the other thread.

You're WAAAAY OFF base… A male golfer will need to be a +1-2 to compete on the LPGA..........

"Waaaaay off base" is now only 1 or 2 strokes? :hmm:

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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I think 220 is absolutely minimum to make it to a scratch golfer.    It will be extremely hard.   Incidentally, my solid drive average is 220 ;-) .

Supporting data point - Ji Aye Shin & Ai Miyazto had 230 yard dive average when they were ranked #1 in the world.   And they were probably +4 handicap (per couple of The Golf Channel Host, In Bee Park , currently ranked #1, is playing to about +4 handicap).   IMO, as LPGA tournament courses got longer, Miyazato & Shin stopped winning.

OT - I estimate about 50 top LPGA players play better or equal to men scratch golf.

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

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Their putting is not better than a male scratch golfer, and the average LPGA Tour player is roughly equivalent to a male scratch player.

Big ol' thread on that right here:

Plus territory for women, yes. They're not significantly better than a male scratch golfer.

OT for this thread, though.

On the topic of this thread… 240 or so, and that's with better-than-average other parts of your game.

Answer I was looking/hoping for ! I just need to keep trending for the next 3 years or so.. lol!

Vishal S.

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My average drive this season is 246 yards, but the only scratching I've done is on my head when I can't hit a green from 100 yards lol
  • Upvote 3

Kyle Paulhus

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