Lining up putts

Benefactor · October 17, 2007

I was just curious to know what you guys do when you have a put that is on the side of a slope and you put your ball down in front of the coin to line it up....and you get the line just where you want it but the ball then rolls a bit to the side because of the slope. How do you get the ball to stay still so that the ball stays lined up properly? This happened yesterday on a green and I had to probably replace the ball 5 times before it would stay still and I still wasn't 100 comfortable with the line because of how many times I had to change it.

**fastfed** · October 18, 2007

Take a tee and press it into the green a couple times behind your ball, I am sure this is not legal, but its not like it does anything to "IMPROVE" your game. I use a tee as a marker anyway, I just stick the tip into the green where my ball is. I also use a tee to repair divots.
So take the tee and press it into the ground behind your ball a couple time to rough it up a tad, then put your ball right infront of it, it should rest on the area where you were pressing the tee in and out of..

Works like a charm and does not Help you at all with sinking a putt, so if anyone complains tell them to shove it

***iacas*** · October 18, 2007

Take a tee and press it into the green a couple times behind your ball, I am sure this is not legal, but its not like it does anything to "IMPROVE" your game.

That's illegal, yes.

Rule 20-3d says:

Source: Rule 20-3(d) If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot: (i) except in a hazard, it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard; (ii) in a hazard, it must be placed in the hazard at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole. If a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.

You can't press the ball down either, as covered under decision 18-2a/6 . Also, if you set the ball down and move away - even if your mark is still behind the ball - and it moves, you have to play from the spot the ball rolled to. The ball is "in play" as soon as you finish replacing the ball (even if your marker is still there). See here .

Works like a charm and does not Help you at all with sinking a putt, so if anyone complains tell them to shove it

Gee, great attitude. You cheat and you tell other people to shove it. Mmm.

**fastfed** · October 19, 2007

That's illegal, yes.

Dude.. You seriously HAVE TO BE KIDDING RIGHT NOW!!! No one is sitting here saying to do this in a tournament, I highly doubt he is on the PGA TOUR, like most of us here we play with friends. I actually play very competitive, the group I play with always plays for money to keep us all on our toes and also so no one "CHEATS" How many people play "Gimmies" Its got to be the number 1 broken rule. What I told him is not going to in anyway make his putt from that distance any better. When playing with friends if that happened to someone in my group, we would allow him to put it back on the marker, you make as if I told him to tee his second and third shot up, out in the fairway. I shot one of the best games today, I played with one friend and we were the only one on the course, we took the flag out maybe 4 times, the rest of the time we left it in, none of my putts made it because of the flag being in and stopping the ball, but obviously the ball hit the pole every time.. Should I of counted the penalty?? Yea, if I was playing a tournament and even then, golf is a game of honor, I highly doubt ANYONE would count that as a penalty, I never played a tournament that had officials on every hole. That being said, he asked a question, I answered it, is it illegal, yes, if he chooses not to do it because of a GOLF RULE then so be it, I follow almost every rule in golf.

**Lemay427** · October 19, 2007

fastfed, i can tell you are a noob. if you played high school or college golf and left the flag in, you would have been penalized everytime. you do not need an official on every hole to determine a penalty. the other members in your group will be more than happy to call you out.

why put a handicap up then? its obviously not valid because you were cheating. could you still be a 21 handicap if you followed the rules? probably. but golf is a game of honor. if everyone disregards the rules, then you have a game of dishonor.

off topic. i hate gimmes. i hate playing with new people that seem like its their right to pick my ball up or hit it back to me when i am within a foot after a putt. i finish every hole out. if its .000004 cm from the cup, i tap it in and pick the ball up. if you have severe back problems, ok, you maybe get a pass. but they do make those gay little but ends that stick on the end of your putter that pick the ball out of the hole

***iacas*** · October 19, 2007

Dude.. You seriously HAVE TO BE KIDDING RIGHT NOW!!!

Nope.

No one is sitting here saying to do this in a tournament, I highly doubt he is on the PGA TOUR, like most of us here we play with friends.

That's odd. I didn't know the Rules of Golf only applied to tournaments and PGA Tour players. Is that somewhere in the Decisions?

I actually play very competitive, the group I play with always plays for money to keep us all on our toes and also so no one "CHEATS"

Uhhh... You pretty much admitted to it.

How many people play "Gimmies" Its got to be the number 1 broken rule.

In match play, it's obviously not a broken rule. If you're just playing with your foursome for skins, or best ball, or whatever, a gimme is no different than just picking up when you're out of the hole or a semi-match-play type situation.

Additionally, handicapping provisions allow you to write down "the score you likely would have made" for a hole you do not complete. If you're a single-digit handicap in a four-ball match and you pump two balls OB, you write down a double bogey when you post (ESC). I hate gimmes. I don't offer them and I hate when others knock my ball away.

What I told him is not going to in anyway make his putt from that distance any better.

It's still against the rules.

When playing with friends if that happened to someone in my group, we would allow him to put it back on the marker, you make as if I told him to tee his second and third shot up, out in the fairway.

Uh, no. I took offense only at your "shove it" comment, as if someone playing by the rules was somehow being the jerk. If that's what you feel, you've got it backwards.

Should I of counted the penalty?? Yea, if I was playing a tournament and even then, golf is a game of honor, I highly doubt ANYONE would count that as a penalty, I never played a tournament that had officials on every hole.

YOU ARE THE OFFICIAL.

And yeah, you broke the rules, so yeah, you should have penalized yourself. Is this a widely broken rule? Yep. But that doesn't change the fact that you broke a rule (repeatedly).

I follow almost every rule in golf.

Except the ones you disagree with. In other words, you only cheat a little bit. Gee, in the words of Chris Rock: "whatchoo want, a cookie?!?!"

but golf is a game of honor. if everyone disregards the rules, then you have a game of dishonor.

Well put.

**NM Golf** · October 19, 2007

Dude.. You seriously HAVE TO BE KIDDING RIGHT NOW!!!

This is off topic to say the least, but fastfed you gotta know if you come on this forum and start talking about how there is a grey area and how certain rules seem to not apply when playing a friendly game, you are gonna get zapped.

Most people who participate in this forum are into golf more than the average joe, or they wouldn't be on here. So that means, for the most part, they both know the rules and play by them. It also means they will have issue with anyone telling someone else not to follow them. I myself believe that when you start playing golf you need to learn the rules and play by them from the beginning. And as some people new to golf come to the forum to get advice, do not give them poor tips that will end up costing them strokes in the long run. If you choose to not play by the rules or whatever then that is your choice. Just realize that your scores do not count, and if you ever plan on playing tournament golf you are getting yourself into some very bad habits that will cost you in the end.

**fastfed** · October 19, 2007

Look, maybe I am a "noob" but I carry around my little rule book just like you guys probably do, I understand the rules, I also play with 2 other guys in my group that are scratch golfers, I DO NOT PLAY GIMMIE'S, but people do, you know there is a local rule called winter rules, obviously there are no winter rules down here in FL, but I couldn't count the amount of times our courses down here are pretty much flooded, you go right into the middle of the fairway and you're sitting in the biggest mud pile, by what the rule book says unless its locally said "winter rules in effect" you have to play it where it lies, does this mean I should be "that jerk" and tell my group they cannot move it??? Even though we play for money there are still some things you have to let slide, rules or not.

As for the original poster, he asked what he could do about a ball sliding back down the green and that's not from his bad hit or really something that has to do with the mechanics of golf, its just a rule, a rule that people in tournaments and the PGA players need to follow. I am all for following the rules, I never pick my ball out of my mud pile ( no it was not plugged )
But not everyone on this site wants to be a PGA player, if the original poster has a 2 foot putt to make his birdie, he puts his ball down the "wrong" way and it now goes and rolls to 7 feet from the hole, I don't blame him for going back and putting his ball back to the original spot.

Some rules in golf are crazy, and making what could be a great round turn into a horrible round because you didn't feel like pulling the pin on every hole in my opinion is a rule that us non pro's don't need to be so anal about it.

To be honest with you Iacas I like the way you play, in terms of following the rules, but I have played with many many people and most are not so anal about grabbing their book and following every bold print. I played with a 2 some last week who were going head to head with each other, they were extremely competitive, so much they wanted us to join their little bet, they were giving themselves 2 foot gimmie's, not calling out of bounds when it really was ( though it was close ) Hitting out of bounds and dropping up there instead of rehitting off the tee. Who am I to tell them they are doing it wrong?

Listen, I don't think any of us need to argue about this, yes what I said is illegal, but again there are allot of rules in golf and not everyone wants to follow every single rule, again some things are stupid to break and others are ok.

**fastfed** · October 19, 2007

This is off topic to say the least, but fastfed you gotta know if you come on this forum and start talking about how there is a grey area and how certain rules seem to not apply when playing a friendly game, you are gonna get zapped.

Again, I said in my first post it was illegal, you say in the long run its going to hurt you, how so? Are we going to be in the PGA? And who's to say I am not into golf as much as the next guy? Shoot, I play atleast 3x a week, I hold a club in my hand pretty much every single day. I love the sport and hope one day I can shoot low 70's every time. It wasn't poor advice because if he chooses to use it and it works for him and makes him feel good about it, then it was good advice. He if chooses to do it, I already told him it was not legal. But again, we are talking about putting his ball back down after marking it and it rolled away. Here is a serious question I have for you. What about if it rolls closer to the hole? And who's to say when the guy puts his ball back down he didn't secretly put a little forward spin on it.

**Snake** · October 19, 2007

What I would like to know is, how did the ball come to a stop in that spot to begin with? If it rolled down the slope after being placed there by hand at a dead stop, how did it not roll down the slope when it was still rolling from the shot? Where's my high school physics teacher when I need her?

***iacas*** · October 20, 2007

you know there is a local rule called winter rules

Winter rules can't be declared by the group or players, and obviously it only applies if enacted. "Winter Rules" also doesn't really affect a ball on the putting green.

you go right into the middle of the fairway and you're sitting in the biggest mud pile, by what the rule book says unless its locally said "winter rules in effect" you have to play it where it lies,

The rules allow relief for both casual water and embedded balls in the fairway.

does this mean I should be "that jerk" and tell my group they cannot move it?

If you wish to play by the rules, wish others to do so, and there's neither casual water nor an embedded ball, then yup.

Even though we play for money there are still some things you have to let slide, rules or not.

I guess there are things YOU feel you have to let slide. I wouldn't.

its just a rule, a rule that people in tournaments and the PGA players need to follow. I am all for following the rules

Look, you've clearly demonstrated that you're only "all for" following the rules you deem worthy of following and ignoring the rest (and telling those who want to follow the rules you don't like to "shove it.").

Some rules in golf are crazy, and making what could be a great round turn into a horrible round because you didn't feel like pulling the pin on every hole in my opinion is a rule that us non pro's don't need to be so anal about it.

Yes, in other words, you follow the rules you want, and ignore the rest. You may as well not follow any of the rules. You can't cheat "just a little bit." It's a pretty thin line: you've either cheated or you haven't. I don't care how far you are over the line - just which side of it you're on.

I have played with many many people and most are not so anal about grabbing their book and following every bold print.

I've played with a lot of people who don't follow the rules, too, but that doesn't mean:

a) I'm going to advise OTHERS to cheat b) I'm going to cheat myself c) I'm happy about it, or d) I'm going to allow it if I'm playing in a tournament

again some things are stupid to break and others are ok.

Uhhh... Sorry to tell you, but you aren't playing golf. You're playing a game that resembles golf, perhaps, but it isn't golf.

you say in the long run its going to hurt you, how so? Are we going to be in the PGA?

You don't have to be "in the PGA" to have getting in the habit of being careless about breaking the rules bite you in the rear at some point. It could cost you a tournament, it could cost you $5, it could cost you a friend, or it could cost you the respect or admiration of others.

You've lost respect in the eyes of many here on the forum already. You may not really care what a bunch of strangers think of you, but I'm sure you'd rather they all respect you more than respect you less.

And who's to say I am not into golf as much as the next guy?

You are. Again, you're not playing golf. You're making up a new game with your own rules.

I love the sport and hope one day I can shoot low 70's every time.

If you cheat just a little more, you could be shooting in the 70s right now!

It wasn't poor advice because if he chooses to use it and it works for him and makes him feel good about it, then it was good advice.

You advised him to cheat. That's poor advice any way you slice it.

Here is a serious question I have for you. What about if it rolls closer to the hole? And who's to say when the guy puts his ball back down he didn't secretly put a little forward spin on it.

Look it up. Here are some hints:

Source: USGA Rules/Decisions except in a hazard, it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard;

Also:

Source: USGA Rules/Decisions If a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.

As for someone putting "a little forward spin on it," golf is a game of honor and integrity. Furthermore, such a player would not have "replaced" the ball properly, since it has to come to rest first in order to be deemed to be "replaced."

**fastfed** · October 20, 2007

Winter rules can't be declared by the group or players, and obviously it only applies if enacted. "Winter Rules" also doesn't really affect a ball on the putting green.

LOL I am glad you took 10 or so minutes to reply to everything I wrote.. Thumbs up to you big guy.. You're right, 90% of us people on the golf course, we're not really playing golf, we're just hitting a metal piece of equipment at a plastic white looking ball.. I would bet that on any given day anyone who goes to put their ball back on their marker and it rolls down, that they go ahead and pick it back up and PUT IT BACK BY THE MARKER.. If you say that by me doing that, is so horrible that "I'm not playing golf" than so be it, I gave the guy ONCE AGAIN!!!!!! A tip so the ball doesn't roll away, I told him it WAS ILLEGAL, if he decides to to do it, then that's his choice. Seriously, I am getting a headache now. you win!!

**NM Golf** · October 20, 2007

Again, I said in my first post it was illegal, you say in the long run its going to hurt you, how so?

So you want to know how it will hurt you in the lon run? Well, I have seen it first hand. If you don't know the rules, or worse ignore them when you play casual rounds then you are likely to make the same mistakes when you play tournament or money rounds.

I played in a tournament with a guy whose normal group always moved the ball in the fairway. He hits his drive down the middle on the first hole and when he gets to it he bumps it. Myself and the other two guys in our group call him on it. He gets pissed but what can he do, he broke the rules. Another example is one day you will need to play "real" golf with a client, colleague or even your boss. They will see you cheat and lose respect for you. Here are some quotes to ponder "The only way of really finding out a man's character is to play golf with him." P.G. Wodehouse "You get to know more of the character of a man in a round of golf than in six months of political experience" David Lloyd George

If you cheat just a little more, you could be shooting in the 70s right now!

ZING!

LOL

**fastfed** · October 20, 2007

So you want to know how it will hurt you in the lon run? Well, I have seen it first hand. If you don't know the rules, or worse ignore them when you play casual rounds then you are likely to make the same mistakes when you play tournament or money rounds.

Well.. Please go back and re-read this thread, I never said "I CHEAT" I actually even said I don't like it when others do.. But there are some things you just have to let slide.. Not everyone wants to be on the tour. For god sake, they're are more people who like to play "casually" than have to worry about every little rule. They make more devices these days that are illegal then ever before I say let the people that wants use them, use them. Anti-slice tee's, Weird clubs,sand paper clubs, laser devices, the list goes on. I am just saying as I did at first, if this guy wants to do what I suggest, let him, don't sit there and tell him he is a bad person or not really "playing golf" Ok, I gotta run, I'm going to cheat on the course now..

**Dyna** · October 20, 2007

measuring devices are illegal per the rules, are all the courses utilizing GPS carts in the wrong? How about people with Skycaddies?

Following ALL the rules is fine if you have the game, unfortunately a lot of us aren't all that good. Sure we get a few decent shots here & there & hopefully & eventually may develop a decent game. Until that time what's so horrible about something such as leaving the flag in? I play a lot of rds by myself & don't pull the pin, just don't see the need to. Does that make me a "cheater" in the eyes of the USGA, sure but what does it hurt?

I don't play tournaments, don't bet on the course, etc. Never have & never will, to me it's just a game & to get so anally wrapped up in following every single tiny rule while out on the course attempting to simply have a good time isn't worth the aggravation.

Fastfed, want to join me for a rd of "sortagolf"?

**Fourputt** · October 20, 2007

Look, maybe I am a "noob" but I carry around my little rule book just like you guys probably do, I understand the rules, I also play with 2 other guys in my group that are scratch golfers, I DO NOT PLAY GIMMIE'S, but people do, you know there is a local rule called winter rules, obviously there are no winter rules down here in FL, but I couldn't count the amount of times our courses down here are pretty much flooded, you go right into the middle of the fairway and you're sitting in the biggest mud pile, by what the rule book says unless its locally said "winter rules in effect" you have to play it where it lies, does this mean I should be "that jerk" and tell my group they cannot move it??? Even though we play for money there are still some things you have to let slide, rules or not.

If you carry a rule book then you ought to actually use it. And when someone asks a question, give him the CORRECT answer, not your improper adaptation of the rule. This is what you should have posted from Rule 20-3:

d. Ball Fails to Come to Rest on Spot If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot: (i) except in a hazard, it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard;

... Ta-daaaa!!!

And putting with the flagstick in the hole is quite against the rules, and any score you thus post (or brag about) is purely imaginary. You just about sum up your slant on the Rules of Golf with this statement:

Listen, I don't think any of us need to argue about this, yes what I said is illegal, but again there are allot of rules in golf and not everyone wants to follow every single rule, again some things are stupid to break and others are ok.

As long as you believe that, you will never actually play a legitimate round of golf.

**Fourputt** · October 20, 2007

measuring devices are illegal per the rules, are all the courses utilizing GPS carts in the wrong? How about people with Skycaddies?

Measuring devices are NOT illegal. Or that is they ARE legal if the club has invoked the following local rule:

14-3/0.5 Local Rule Permitting Use of Distance-Measuring Device Q. May a Committee, by Local Rule, permit the use of distance-measuring devices? A. Yes. A Committee may establish a Local Rule allowing players to use devices that measure distance only. However, the use of devices that gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play (e.g., wind or gradient) is not permitted. In the absence of such a Local Rule, the use of a distance-measuring device would be contrary to Rule 14-3. (New)

And I have yet to play at a club or course where they haven't invoked that local rule. IMO, it should just be added to the rules as a legal tool, then give the club the right to disallow them with a local rule. It would be easier in the long run.

**Dyna** · October 20, 2007

Measuring devices are NOT illegal. Or that is they ARE legal if the club has invoked the following local rule:

per the USGA rules book they are illegal. 14-3 The player must not use any artificial device or unusual equipment: a. That might assist him in making a stroke or in his play; or b. for the purpose of gauging or measuring distances or conditions which might affect his play.

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