Marking Ball While Other Ball Moving Toward It

[/quote][quote name="nevets88" url="/t/83040/2015-british-open-at-st-andrews-discussion-thread/720#post_1171511"]If he marked before ball passed, it's legal? [/quote]My understanding if the rules :- He can mark his ball but if he moves it he'll incur a penalty. Moving any object that could impede a ball in motion is not allowed .. even if it's your own ball.

Not correct. 24-1:

When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up, must not be moved.

" He can mark his ball but if he moves it he'll incur a penalty"

Also incorrect; 20-1 " If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of or lifting the ball."

My only issue is, since Spieth was off the green. I believe he can only mark and lift his ball if Dustin Johnson asked him to, such as a situation where Spieth's ball might be in the way of DJ's shot.

If Spieth actually marked and lifted his ball I believe he would have to take a penalty because he was not on the green and he lifted the ball with out his opponents authority.

The only time you can mark, lift and place when not on the green is if you are taking relief as stated in a specific rule about such relief or if you are allowed by your opponent.

saevel,

agreed - there would be a 1-3 penalty for Spieth, on the green or not. The 24-1 exception would not apply in that case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Was he?

I think the issue is what you can and cannot do while a ball is in motion. I think his ball was on the green. I think if it was not on the green he knows he doesn't need to move it.

Pretty sure he was on the green. Some of the greens have big tiers. Like the Valley of Sin on the 18th.

Yea, I just looked at the video and I think he was just on the green.

So Spieth would have violated rule 22-1? If so he would have to have taken a 2 stroke penalty?

The ball that was moving was Dustin Johnson's, pushed by the wind, from the green, as he was too slow to mark it. You're right that the stroke that lead to this motion was made by Dustin from off the green. If that means that the ball was moving from off the green, Jordan Spieth wouldn't have occurred a penalty anyway (if his ball had been hit but Dustin's), even if it was on the green (which I am not sure he was)... Would the situation be different if Jordan's ball had been on the green vs. off the green?

It's probably better than no ball touched the other one, or we would have had another lengthy discussion with the officials on one hand, and the guys in the commenting booth on the other hand, to come out with the proper ruling, lol (ref the Dlay/Dufner/Jimenez "shamble"...)

Rule 1-2.

If it's on the green, the applicable rule is 16-1b.

In no case would Jordan incur a penalty if the ball hit his. Dustin would occur a two stroke penalty (under 19-5) only if he made his stroke from the putting green while Jordan's ball was at rest on the green, and then hit Jordan's ball. Not applicable though, since Dustin's stroke was from off the green.

If Jordan had previously marked and lifted the ball, and then replaced it, he would be permitted to mark it and lift it again, even with the other ball in motion, according to decision 16-1b/2.

Otherwise, if he lifted the ball, so long as there was a reasonable possibility at the time the ball was lifted that Dustin's ball might have hit his, then he would be in violation of 16-1b,   "When another ball is in motion, a ball that might influence the movement of the ball in motion must not be lifted." Two stroke penalty.

Sorry, I meant to type 1-2, not 1-3 !

The General Penalty applies. Both 22-1 and 22-2 have the following note:

Note: When another ball is in motion, a ball that might influence the movement of the ball in motion must not be lifted.

Agreed.  If Jordan's ball was off the green the applicable rule is 22.  Rule 1-2 is not applicable.  That would only apply if a player purposely  influences the movement or altering physical conditons of his ball in motion .

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Rule 1-2 applies to "a ball in play", so it doesn't have to be the players own ball. But the main thing with 1-2 is that it only applies if no other rule permits or prohibits an action. So we don't get to it here. The other thing with 1-2 is it relies heavily on intent. Jordan's intent was arguably not to alter the movement of Dustin's ball, but simply to prevent his own ball from being moved.

Why would he be worried about that?