Swampy Woods - Hazard or Lost Ball?

The third hole on my local track plays as a short dogleg left with a narrow approach to the green through trees. The best tee shots nearly run through the fairway. A few yards long or right will put you into what I describe as a black hole.

In the picture below, the spot marked by the pin is where most shots enter this area, including plenty of my own. No one seems to know how to treat a ball that ends up in this spot.

It is an unmarked wooded area with swampy, wet ground that leads to a creek (seen in the lower right corner).  Some of the area is swamp, yet some of it is just dense forest ground-covering. Either way there is no finding a ball that enters this area.

How do I determine if this is a hazard? If my ball sails into here, do I drop at point of entry like a hazard, or do I treat it like a lost ball and re-tee? Is it a different answer if it is near the swampy part, versus near the dry, overgrown area?  Thanks.

It would have to be marked with red stakes or noted as a hazard on the scorecard.

1. If you can't find your ball it is lost. Under the rules you're supposed to go back to the approximate spot where you last played and re-hit.

2. Check to see if there is a local rule covering those woods. One of my local courses, due to the density of the woods and undergrowth has one that says "drop, +1 stroke at point of entry." In their case, I think it's a liability thing since I nearly killed myself trying to hit out once. Also I think it's for speeding up play since they don't want to spend the money to remove about 500 trees from the course.

3. You can hit a provisional ball and then look for your original. If you find your original then you must play your original.

4. You can always re-tee your ball and re-hit without declaring a provisional, and abandon your original ball. You may also look for it and pick it up.

Also if you might want to consider using a shorter club than a driver to avoid reaching that spot.

If the point where you ball enters fits the definition of a water hazard or lateral water hazard, then you can proceed under Rule 26-1.  If the spot does not fit the definition, then the ball is lost and Rule 27 describes the operative procedure.  While a water hazard should be properly marked, and unmarked hazard can still be played as such if it meets the definition in the rules.  It sounds like the natural margin of the swampy area which fits the definition of a water hazard might be hard to determine in this case.

So the swamp is a water hazard. But you're in the woods with thick undergrowth. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or take S&D;, unless it is marked with red stakes making it a lateral water hazard,

Or unless there is a local rule in effect governing the swamp and woods.

But like I said, it is probably best to avoid the problem in the first place by using a shorter hitting club so that the ball stops in the fairway.

There is not local rule. Yes, I am learning to pull back on this hole and hit iron off the tee. Focusing on shot zones per LSW is helping a lot.

Based on the setup of the hole, it would be impossible to drop keeping the point of entry between me and the hole. So it looks like the only option is re-hit from the tee.

It seems like the real answer would be for the course to mark this area or designate a local rule on the scorecard? I have become friends with the manager of the course, I may mention it to him.

Yeah, I know, hit iron off the tee

Even a lot of iron shots go right on this hole and end up in the same woods/swamp. I was curious as to what defines an unmarked water hazard, seems very subjective. After a heavy rain this whole area looks like a water hazard, yet when it is dry it looks just like forest.

If that is the case then it qualifies as a lateral water hazard with the additional option of 26-1c.

In absence of markings or notation on the scorecard, I would assume the course considers that to just be woods and not a hazard.  Can't find the ball, then it is a lost ball.

But, question for OP...does the course have other water or lateral water hazards that are properly marked with either red/yellow stakes or painted lines?

I have played a lot of muni and daily fee courses that are poorly marked or not marked at all.  I guess they just assume you know what is a hazard and what is not and where the hazard lines are. Sucks but that is the way they are.

No markings at all on any hazard. It is definitely a "budget" course. Most of the water is pretty straightforward, this is the only one that is iffy.

FWIW, I looked the course up on Google Maps.  There is a lot of distance between the start of the tree line and La Plaisance Creek where you indicated.  Not seeing it other than aerially, would be hard call if they have nothing marked.

I would pose the question directly to the course.  If they have not marked other hazards, then this is "probably" a lateral hazard.  Of course, the question then would be "where does the lateral hazard begin and end?"  Best answer is going to have to come from the course itself.  Ask them.

The county finally marked the hazard on one of the courses all the way around yellow even though it made absolutely no sense on the longish lateral side of it, which means if your ball goes in you automatically re-tee. Unless you want to hit out of 6" tall rough with the point of entry between you and the hole with a forced carry of 120 yds. to the green - otherwise you're chipping and you might as well have re-teed. It's a par 3. Stupid marking IMO.

Yeah, the aerial view is deceiving, right at the tree line there is a steep drop off to an area that is actually part of the creek when the water is high, and is just dense vegetation when it's low.

Sounds to me that your are describing a pretty clear natural margin.

I saw the title and thought it was about Tiger's enviromentalist cousin

Course needs to address the issue. Should be marked on socre cards or local rules IMO

A few bucks worth of red stakes would be a better solution.  For the price of one or two green fees at most it could be properly marked.

Very good point. Often overlook the simple solutuions

That's exactly the point I was trying to make in a different thread. A 1"x1"x2' wooden stake costs .50 cents. It's just sheer laziness on the part of course management.

You are overlooking what has already been mentioned in the thread.  If a ditch, pond, stream etc meets the definition of a water hazard, it is a water hazard whether marked or not and you can proceed under Rule 26.  See Decision 26-3

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-26,d26-3

You can't just decide to deem a large area as casual water: the presence or not of casual water (as defined ) will determine the extent of ground affected. If you had decided the area in question was not a water hazard you could  only take  relief from casual water where casual water existed and only if it  interfered with lie, stance or area of intended swing.  My apologies if I have misunderstood what you meant by deeming the whole area as AGC.

By the way, when you say you have to be sure of where your ball crossed the margin of an AGC, have you considered  Rule 20-2b Where to Drop?