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"Ungrounding" one's club


bkuehn1952
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You take your stance and ground your club.  Then you decide you are going to do something different.  You walk away and grab another club.  As you approach your ball for the 2nd time, if moves.  Does the fact that you grounded your club 10 seconds ago, in the absence of another obvious cause, mean you moved the ball?

If you ground the club, then lift it up and then the ball moves, I believe you are considered to have moved the ball even if your club was not grounded at the moment the ball moved (absent another explanation for the movement).  So how long or what actions must occur after one grounds the club to consider that one has not grounded the club?  Or is it that once one grounds the club, it doesn't matter how much time passes or what one does, you grounded your club so any unexplained movement is deemed to have been caused by you?

Brian Kuehn

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Rule 18-2b  seems quite clear:

b. Ball Moving After Address

If a player's ball in play moves after he has addressed it (other than as a result of a stroke), the player is deemed to have moved the ball and incurs a penalty of one stroke.

The ball must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.

Exception: If it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause his ball to move, Rule 18-2b does not apply.

The only way I know of to "unaddress" the ball is on the green, by marking and lifting it.  When not on the green I can't think of a way to change that status.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

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Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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You take your stance and ground your club.  Then you decide you are going to do something different.  You walk away and grab another club.  As you approach your ball for the 2nd time, if moves.  Does the fact that you grounded your club 10 seconds ago, in the absence of another obvious cause, mean you moved the ball?

The ball moved as you were walking into the shot?

Mike McLoughlin

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As Fourputt says.  Once addressed, the ball remains addressed unless marked and lifted under a Rule.

And if, heaven forbid, you don't believe him, take a look at Decisions 18-2b/7 and 18-2b/8

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-18,d18-2b-7

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-18,d18-2b-8

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Rule 18-2b  seems quite clear:

The only way I know of to "unaddress" the ball is on the green, by marking and lifting it.  When not on the green I can't think of a way to change that status.

Fourputt is (of course) correct - the only way to un-address the ball is to mark and lift it under a Rule. This could happen through the green in several ways.

You address a ball and then realize it may not be yours so you invoke 12-2; you suspect the ball may be damaged, invoke 5-3; address the ball when there is interference under 24 or 25 with the intention of playing it then change your mind and choose to take relief.

I'm sure there are more examples.

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The ball moved as you were walking into the shot?

This did not actually happen to me but I could imagine the scenario where you ground the club, then decide you need a different club and walk back to your bag or cart.  Some time elapses and you are walking back to your ball and it moves.

In fact this morning I was on a steep bank in front of a bunker.  I was just standing about 5 feet from the ball watching another player hit his shot.  I noticed the ball just slightly turn.  At that point, I became concerned it was going to start rolling and end up in the bunker.  I briefly thought about hitting before the other player marked his ball.  Then the ball really did start to roll but got hung up on another tuft of grass after about 3-4 feet.  I quickly took a stance, did not ground the club, and hit it in case it decided to start rolling again.

I think we all have seen a ball on a slope start to roll again because the weight of the ball eventually bends a few grass blades and gravity takes over.

I guess the moral of the story is when on a steep slope don't ground your club but if you do, you may as well hit it and not wait to possibly let gravity do you in.

Brian Kuehn

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Here's an answer closely related to your situation. I know he gave a link to this but the link took me to the main page of decisions for Rule 18. This will just save you the time.

18-2b/7

Ball Moves After Player Addresses It and Then Steps Away

Q. A player addresses his ball. Realizing that the ball is precariously balanced and may move, he steps away from the ball and starts again. This time he does not address the ball, but before he strikes the ball, it moves. What is the ruling?

A. The player incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2b and the ball must be replaced, unless it is known or virtually certain that something else (e.g., wind) caused the ball to move.

Wind, or I would assume a seismic event, someone driving anything or something falling nearby that could cause a vibration in the ground, animal, or something else striking the ball would meet the conditions of "something other than the player." So think a little bit before you blame yourself.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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Here's an answer closely related to your situation. I know he gave a link to this but the link took me to the main page of decisions for Rule 18. This will just save you the time.

That's odd.  The hyperlink I gave for this and the following Decision worked fine when I checked it (and still does)  by taking you to the specific decision.  I wonder what the problem is?

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Might be my browser, computer and my "paranoid" security settings.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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Firefox. It just took me to the main decisions page for rule 18 top of the page.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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Firefox. It just took me to the main decisions page for rule 18 top of the page.


Worked ok in Firefox for me.

Now don't get even more paranoid, but I think they are out to get you. :-D

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Then again, electronic devices and I don't get along that well. Fortunately, they are shielding them better now.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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Note: This thread is 3173 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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