Damage to the Putting Green

**jcjim** · August 31, 2015

I've been playing a long time for sure and have never run into this and it seems like I should have...Anyway a friend came to me a asked this question..

He was playing and on the third hole he was on the green and right in front of his ball was a very deep cut in the green as if someone took his club and slamed the toe into the green and a big hunk of earth was turned up...His partner said that he could try to repair it but no relief...Well my friend said it was un repairable..and a putt wouldn't roll over it without rolling all over the place ..

So what's the rule regarding it does he get relief and if so where is the ball replaced to...?

**rogolf** · August 31, 2015

I've been playing a long time for sure and have never run into this and it seems like I should have...Anyway a friend came to me a asked this question..

He was playing and on the third hole he was on the green and right in front of his ball was a very deep cut in the green as if someone took his club and slamed the toe into the green and a big hunk of earth was turned up...His partner said that he could try to repair it but no relief...Well my friend said it was un repairable..and a putt wouldn't roll over it without rolling all over the place ..

So what's the rule regarding it does he get relief and if so where is the ball replaced to...?

A couple of points from the Rules:

1. On the putting green, a player may only repair old hole plugs and ball marks.

2. A player is not authorized to declare any area to be ground under repair - that is reserved for the Committee/Committee representative.

In such a case, the player should request a Committee member to intervene. If no Committee member is available, the player may repair the damage (analogy to Decision 16-1a/6). However, he is only permitted to repair the damage, not move the ball to another spot.

**Asheville** · August 31, 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcjim

I've been playing a long time for sure and have never run into this and it seems like I should have...Anyway a friend came to me a asked this question..

He was playing and on the third hole he was on the green and right in front of his ball was a very deep cut in the green as if someone took his club and slamed the toe into the green and a big hunk of earth was turned up...His partner said that he could try to repair it but no relief...Well my friend said it was un repairable..and a putt wouldn't roll over it without rolling all over the place ..

So what's the rule regarding it does he get relief and if so where is the ball replaced to...?

A couple of points from the Rules:
1. On the putting green, a player may only repair old hole plugs and ball marks.
2. A player is not authorized to declare any area to be ground under repair - that is reserved for the Committee/Committee representative.

In such a case, the player should request a Committee member to intervene. If no Committee member is available, the player may repair the damage (analogy to Decision 16-1a/6). However, he is only permitted to repair the damage, not move the ball to another spot.

Is that from the R&A;?

Seems reasonable to be sure, but I'd not heard of that before.

cm

**rogolf** · August 31, 2015

Is that from the R&A;?

Seems reasonable to be sure, but I'd not heard of that before.

cm

As stated, its based on my analogy to the response/procedure in Decision 16-1/6.a

**Fourputt** · August 31, 2015

From a rules viewpoint, Rogolf is correct. From a practical standpoint playing a public course in a casual round, I would take the committee responsibilities on myself and declare it GUR and take line of putt relief. As long as it isn't a competition, you shouldn't have to be stuck with a condition which the committee would deal with if it was a competition.

**DrvFrShow** · September 1, 2015

I agree. Earlier in the year the grounds crew replaced an entire section of a green. If your ball landed there you were basically screwed. You couldn't make a reasonable putt, and you can't chip on the green (which would have been the more appropriate shot). Since it wasn't a tournament round we played it a GUR and moved the ball.

My home course under new management did some verticutting on the greens this spring and it left some really weird stuff where the edges of some of the strips started curling when the heat hit and they didn't water sufficiently. Putting was shall we say very interesting on some greens yielding some four putts. After a while the three foot gimme during casual rounds until June. I'm pretty much done with that dog track.

**ColinL** · September 1, 2015

I agree. Earlier in the year the grounds crew replaced an entire section of a green. If your ball landed there you were basically screwed. You couldn't make a reasonable putt, and you can't chip on the green (which would have been the more appropriate shot). Since it wasn't a tournament round we played it a GUR and moved the ball.

My home course under new management did some verticutting on the greens this spring and it left some really weird stuff where the edges of some of the strips started curling when the heat hit and they didn't water sufficiently. Putting was shall we say very interesting on some greens yielding some four putts. After a while the three foot gimme during casual rounds until June. I'm pretty much done with that dog track.

Just a wee point: in terms of the Rules, there is nothing to stop you chipping on the putting green.

**Lihu** · September 1, 2015

[QUOTE name="DrvFrShow" url="/t/84184/a-friend-just-asked#post_1193133"] I agree. Earlier in the year the grounds crew replaced an entire section of a green. If your ball landed there you were basically screwed. You couldn't make a reasonable putt, and you can't chip on the green (which would have been the more appropriate shot). Since it wasn't a tournament round we played it a GUR and moved the ball. My home course under new management did some verticutting on the greens this spring and it left some really weird stuff where the edges of some of the strips started curling when the heat hit and they didn't water sufficiently. Putting was shall we say very interesting on some greens yielding some four putts. After a while the three foot gimme during casual rounds until June. I'm pretty much done with that dog track. [/QUOTE] Just a wee point: in terms of the Rules, there is nothing to stop you chipping on the putting green.

Was going to state the same thing, but does this only apply to your own green? If you accidentally hit another green what do you do?

**Asheville** · September 1, 2015

From Rule 25:

If a player's ball lies on a wrong putting green , he must not play the ball as it lies. He must take relief, without penalty , as follows:

The player must lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief . The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green . When dropping the ball within one club-length of the nearest point of relief , the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the wrong putting green and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green . The ball may be cleaned when lifted under this Rule.

**rogolf** · September 1, 2015

From Rule 25:

If a player's ball lies on a wrong putting green, he must not play the ball as it lies. He must take relief, without penalty, as follows:

The player must lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When dropping the ball within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the wrong putting green and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green. The ball may be cleaned when lifted under this Rule.

An oddity in taking relief from a wrong putting green - relief does not include relief for the stance, only for the ball. In other words, you can stand on the wrong putting green to play your next stroke after taking relief.

**rehmwa** · September 1, 2015

An oddity in taking relief from a wrong putting green - relief does not include relief for the stance, only for the ball. In other words, you can stand on the wrong putting green to play your next stroke after taking relief.

If the intention of the rule is to not damage the green even further, then this really is odd. Though the stance will, of course, be at the edge of the green in any scenario like this.

***iacas*** · September 1, 2015

If the intention of the rule is to not damage the green even further, then this really is odd. Though the stance will, of course, be at the edge of the green in any scenario like this.

Your shoes damage turf a lot less than a divot, unless you pirouette in your swing or something. And even then…

And yeah, your stance can't be too far away from the edge of the green.

**rehmwa** · September 1, 2015

Your shoes damage turf a lot less than a divot, unless you pirouette in your swing or something. And even then…

With all the little defects near the cup, I sometimes wonder how many of our local golfers like to pirouette in their short putts and when picking balls out of the cup.

They do seem to do a good job not damaging other parts of the green with their shoes - I guess not fixing ball marks minimizes the shuffling and dragging of feet.

**DrvFrShow** · September 1, 2015

I find I really like spikeless shoes.

In the first case, the course should have staked off the part of the green as GUR until the new pieces of sod took. And in the second case, the course should have changed their watering schedule.

**bubble** · September 1, 2015

I would chip over, finish the hole, then repair.

**boil3rmak3r** · September 1, 2015

I would chip over, finish the hole, then repair.

Repair what? The previous damage on the green, the fresh divot you made, or both? I'm not a fan of anyone choosing this option in casual play. You, specifically, may be good enough to not take a divot 100% of the time, but most golfers can't guarantee they wouldn't.

**bubble** · September 1, 2015

I would repair the previous damage of course.

hard to divot a green. but if so I would repair as well.

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Damage to the Putting Green

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