Still learning the rules

**klaymon** · January 25, 2008

My goal is to compete in golf, not just be a weekend hacker. I want to learn to play the way the game would be played in a tournament. I figure if I allow myself too much relief, I'll not learn how to play those off-the-wall/tough shots.

What are the rules on how to play a ball when your swing is obstructed in the following examples?

1) The ball lands under a tree and your regular swing would hit a low branch? My assumption here is you have to make do with a restricted swing.

2) The ball goes under a pine tree (where you obviously have no where to stand, much less swing)? I would guess here you would declare unplayable and take a penalty.

3) The ball lands against the trunk of a tree. As you approach, it would be on the right side of the tree for a right-handed golfer. My guess on this one would be you'd have to try to chip back toward the way you came, then play your normal shot.

My guesses are just that, guesses. If any/all of these situations are entitled to relief, I'd sure take it but my gut tells me I'd have to suck it up and play as it lies.

Thanks.

**tjy355** · January 25, 2008

You are correct that in each situation you describe, you are not entitled to any relief.

In situation # 3, you could always try to turn a club upside down and hit it left-handed (you should practice this before trying it because it is easy to whiff!).

And in ANY case, you can always declare a ball unplayable and take the drop with penalty.

It is good that you develop the attitude that golf is a game of breaks and the ball should be played as it lies. I think it makes you a stronger player mentally. Too many people think they are entitled to relief from every unfortunate situation. However, it is good to know the rules and when you are allowed relief because when you are in a competition you don't want to give away any strokes.

Good luck!
Tom

**neudi** · January 25, 2008

1) You will have a restricted swing, but on your practice swing make sure not to hit any leaves or branches off or it is a stroke penalty, called improving your lie.

2) #2 you are correct

3) You can hit it as it lies, backwards, or you can take an unplayable 1 stroke no closer to the hole 1 club length.

You can take relief from anywhere you want, even in the middle of the fairway, but you have to take the penalty with it...except for hazards and OB of course.

**Q.Q.Quillume** · January 25, 2008

1) You will have a restricted swing, but on your practice swing make sure not to hit any leaves or branches off or it is a stroke penalty, called improving your lie.

Two club lengths, not one.

Rule 28. Ball Unplayable Definitions All defined terms are in italics and are listed alphabetically in the Definitions section. The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable. If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke: a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole. If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker. When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball. Penalty for Breach of Rule: Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes.

**klaymon** · January 25, 2008

Good info. Thanks guys!

**Fourputt** · January 25, 2008

Good info. Thanks guys!

If you are truly interested, spend some time

Here

**klaymon** · January 26, 2008

I have the rule book (and yes I've read a good portion of it) but it's very dry and sometimes I find it hard to find what I'm looking for because of differences in wording. I like that interactive link you provided, though. Thanks Fourputt.

**Fourputt** · January 26, 2008

I have the rule book (and yes I've read a good portion of it) but it's very dry and sometimes I find it hard to find what I'm looking for because of differences in wording. I like that interactive link you provided, though. Thanks Fourputt.

The best thing about using the online Rule book is that you can get the Decisions too, and that is where you start to develop a degree of understanding. Most of them come from real life situations that have arisen on the golf course, often during important tournaments. Some of those decisions will surprise you.

**Shindig** · January 26, 2008

I have the rule book (and yes I've read a good portion of it) but it's very dry and sometimes I find it hard to find what I'm looking for because of differences in wording. I like that interactive link you provided, though. Thanks Fourputt.

It doesn't contain everything, but consider Arnold Palmer's

Playing by the Rules . Not very dry, contains stories of most of the rules being broken (many by him, some knowingly!), the penalties, and some explanations for why. It isn't every rule and decision, but it's a good starter. I own several copies of the USGA Rulebook and two copies of the decisions. I have to read through the decisions at some point. Maybe I'll put it by my bed and read for 15 minutes each morning.

gblackwell · November 16, 2014

1) You will have a restricted swing, but on your practice swing make sure not to hit any leaves or branches off or it is a stroke penalty, called improving your lie.

This is not strictly correct after Decision 13-2/0.5 came out in Jan 2012, or under the prior decision, which was removed (13-2/22). Both are quoted in full below. I'd say it's penalty for removing branches almost for sure, but for leaves, it's going to be judgment call just about every time. The operative question is always whether the area of intended swing (or stance or line) was "improved." Neudi is correct in that a conservative approach is best: if no leaves fall in your practice swing, the issue will not even arise..

Meaning of "Improve" in Rule 13-2

Q. Rule 13-2 prohibits a player from improving certain areas. What does "improve" mean?

A. In the context of Rule 13-2 , "improve" means to change for the better so that the player gains a potential advantage with respect to the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or the area in which he is to drop or place a ball. Therefore, merely changing an area protected by Rule 13-2 will not be a breach of Rule 13-2 unless it creates such a potential advantage for the player in his play.

Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

repairs a small pitch-mark on his line of play five yards in front of his ball prior to making a 150-yard approach shot from through the green;
accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected; or
whose ball lies in thick rough 180 yards from the green, walks forward and pulls strands of grass on his line of play and tosses them in the air to determine the direction of the wind.

Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

repairs a pitch-mark through the green five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to making a stroke from off the putting green that might be affected by the pitch-mark (e.g., a putt or a low-running shot);
accidentally knocks down a single leaf from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but, as this was one of very few leaves that might either interfere with his swing or fall and thereby distract him, the area of intended swing has been materially affected; or
pulls strands of grass from rough a few inches behind his ball to test the wind, but thereby reduces a potential distraction for the player, or resistance to his club, in the area of his intended swing.

The determination as to whether a player has gained a potential advantage from his actions is made by reference to the situation immediately prior to his stroke. If there is a reasonable possibility that the player's action has created a potential advantage, the player is in breach of Rule 13-2 .

Former Decision 13-2/22 (removed when 13-2/.5 was enacted, above)

Q. A p layer's ball lies near a tree or bush. The player takes a practice swing near his ball and knocks down leaves in the area of his intended swing. Is this a breach of Rule 13-2?

A. The answer depends on whether the area of the intended swing is improved. In some cases, the knocking down of a number of leaves would not improve the area of the intended swing as the player still has to swing through a number of remaining leaves when making his stroke. In such circumstances, there would be no breach of the Rules. In other cases, the knocking down of one leaf might improve the area of the intended swing, in which case there would be a breach of Rule 13-2.

If a player has improved the area of his intended swing by knocking down a leaf or a number of leaves, he cannot avoid penalty under Rule 13-2 by subsequently changing the area of his swing when he actually makes the stroke.

**turtleback** · November 17, 2014

This is not strictly correct after Decision 13-2/0.5 came out in Jan 2012, or under the prior decision, which was removed (13-2/22). Both are quoted in full below. I'd say it's penalty for removing branches almost for sure, but for leaves, it's going to be judgment call just about every time. The operative question is always whether the area of intended swing (or stance or line) was "improved." Neudi is correct in that a conservative approach is best: if no leaves fall in your practice swing, the issue will not even arise..

Meaning of "Improve" in Rule 13-2
Q.Rule 13-2 prohibits a player from improving certain areas. What does "improve" mean?
A.In the context of Rule 13-2, "improve" means to change for the better so that the player gains a potential advantage with respect to the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or the area in which he is to drop or place a ball. Therefore, merely changing an area protected by Rule 13-2 will not be a breach of Rule 13-2 unless it creates such a potential advantage for the player in his play.
Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

repairs a small pitch-mark on his line of play five yards in front of his ball prior to making a 150-yard approach shot from through the green;
accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected; or
whose ball lies in thick rough 180 yards from the green, walks forward and pulls strands of grass on his line of play and tosses them in the air to determine the direction of the wind.

Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

repairs a pitch-mark through the green five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to making a stroke from off the putting green that might be affected by the pitch-mark (e.g., a putt or a low-running shot);
accidentally knocks down a single leaf from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but, as this was one of very few leaves that might either interfere with his swing or fall and thereby distract him, the area of intended swing has been materially affected; or
pulls strands of grass from rough a few inches behind his ball to test the wind, but thereby reduces a potential distraction for the player, or resistance to his club, in the area of his intended swing.

The determination as to whether a player has gained a potential advantage from his actions is made by reference to the situation immediately prior to his stroke. If there is a reasonable possibility that the player's action has created a potential advantage, the player is in breach of Rule 13-2.

Former Decision 13-2/22 (removed when 13-2/.5 was enacted, above)
Q. A player's ball lies near a tree or bush. The player takes a practice swing near his ball and knocks down leaves in the area of his intended swing. Is this a breach of Rule 13-2?

A. The answer depends on whether the area of the intended swing is improved. In some cases, the knocking down of a number of leaves would not improve the area of the intended swing as the player still has to swing through a number of remaining leaves when making his stroke. In such circumstances, there would be no breach of the Rules. In other cases, the knocking down of one leaf might improve the area of the intended swing, in which case there would be a breach of Rule 13-2.
If a player has improved the area of his intended swing by knocking down a leaf or a number of leaves, he cannot avoid penalty under Rule 13-2 by subsequently changing the area of his swing when he actually makes the stroke.

Good update for the newer decision. And welcome to the forum. It looks like you have both lot of interest and a lot of knowledge about the rules. I hope you will stick around and continue participating.

**Club Rat** · November 17, 2014

What are the rules on how to play a ball when your swing is obstructed in the following examples?

1) The ball lands under a tree and your regular swing would hit a low branch? My assumption here is you have to make do with a restricted swing.

2) The ball goes under a pine tree (where you obviously have no where to stand, much less swing)? I would guess here you would declare unplayable and take a penalty.

3) The ball lands against the trunk of a tree. As you approach, it would be on the right side of the tree for a right-handed golfer. My guess on this one would be you'd have to try to chip back toward the way you came, then play your normal shot.

My guesses are just that, guesses. If any/all of these situations are entitled to relief, I'd sure take it but my gut tells me I'd have to suck it up and play as it lies.

Thanks.

Only relief is under penalty as you guessed is correct.

You may declare a "ball unplayable" at anytime, which all three of your examples indicate good assumptions.

But, sometimes a risky option may save a situation, or create more problems.

Always consider the options before electing to take relief or gamble with a risky attempt.

Sometimes as they say "Take your medicine" and lumps and play on.

Club Rat

**Rulesman** · November 17, 2014

Only relief is under penalty as you guessed is correct.

You may declare a "ball unplayable" at anytime,

Unless your ball is in a water hazard.

**Lihu** · November 17, 2014

My goal is to compete in golf, not just be a weekend hacker. I want to learn to play the way the game would be played in a tournament. I figure if I allow myself too much relief, I'll not learn how to play those off-the-wall/tough shots.

What are the rules on how to play a ball when your swing is obstructed in the following examples?

1) The ball lands under a tree and your regular swing would hit a low branch? My assumption here is you have to make do with a restricted swing.

2) The ball goes under a pine tree (where you obviously have no where to stand, much less swing)? I would guess here you would declare unplayable and take a penalty.

3) The ball lands against the trunk of a tree. As you approach, it would be on the right side of the tree for a right-handed golfer. My guess on this one would be you'd have to try to chip back toward the way you came, then play your normal shot.

My guesses are just that, guesses. If any/all of these situations are entitled to relief, I'd sure take it but my gut tells me I'd have to suck it up and play as it lies.

Thanks.

You know the rules pretty well.

I would still try the shot from case 2. I would choke up onto the steel on a 3i (or whatever), and still try to tap it out because I would need to take a penalty anyway. Plus going back might be a worse shot.

**malincanada** · December 9, 2014

My goal is to compete in golf, not just be a weekend hacker. I want to learn to play the way the game would be played in a tournament. I figure if I allow myself too much relief, I'll not learn how to play those off-the-wall/tough shots.

What are the rules on how to play a ball when your swing is obstructed in the following examples?

1) The ball lands under a tree and your regular swing would hit a low branch? My assumption here is you have to make do with a restricted swing.

2) The ball goes under a pine tree (where you obviously have no where to stand, much less swing)? I would guess here you would declare unplayable and take a penalty.

3) The ball lands against the trunk of a tree. As you approach, it would be on the right side of the tree for a right-handed golfer. My guess on this one would be you'd have to try to chip back toward the way you came, then play your normal shot.

My guesses are just that, guesses. If any/all of these situations are entitled to relief, I'd sure take it but my gut tells me I'd have to suck it up and play as it lies.

Thanks.

The one thing that I would add to this thread is the fact that you should always try and be aware of all the options available to you in any given situation.

For example, Seve fans will remember that quite often when his ball was near a tree trunk, he was very good at spotting rabbit scrapes from which he might get free relief!!

I'm not trying to condone bending or stretching rules - 'equity' is a very important aspect of the rules - but I think it's important to note that having knowledge of the rules is not only about applying the correct penalties to yourself, but is also about making sure you avail yourself of the best option for yourself in each situation.

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Meaning of "Improve" in Rule 13-2

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