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start of the downswing- PLEASE HELP!


donkba
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i cannot keep the club on the correct swingpath on the downswing, and the club loops around my body and comes WAY inside. i start my downswing by pulling the club down with my left arm (right hander) and turning my shoulders and for some reason, this crazy thing happens and i dont know how to stop it. ive been to a pro for help but it didnt work too well. someone at my club told me to make sure my right arm came across my body, others have told me to start with my hips. im confused and dont know which advice to follow. can you please tell me how you start the downswing and/or give any advice to stop going too much inside on the downswing
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Try simply swinging very slowly with your driver/irons. Try completing your backswing, downswing, and follow-through as slowly as possible to force yourself to swing on-line.

It might feel like you are swinging completely wrong, but it will help your muscles tell what a "correct" swing feels like. I'd say to stay away from the quick-fixes and simply focus on what you are trying to accomplish. If you want to change your swing to be on-line through the whole swing, then just focus on practicing that.

Clubs in my Army-issued duffel-bag...

DTR Irons : 2-9
DCI Wedges : PW 48* & SW 56*
Driver : Mid-Size TP System2 9.5* Metalwood (5) 23*

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Are you bending your left elbow at the top of your swing? when I try to get a little more on the ball I tend to do that. some times you can get away with it, but most of the time it will end in a bad swing. Start your downswing with your hips, left arm straight as you can and keep it like that thru the swing! Stay within yourself (don't swing so hard) and you will be fine! Thats what works for me.

In my Procombo stand bag
Fusion FT-3
Fusion FT-3 3 wood
Citation 2 iron from the early 80's
Cronin Tour irons 4 - PW V-foil 56 Vokey wedge 58 Oil canV-foil 60 G2i CRAZ-E ProV1

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Best advise I ever got was to keep my arms in front of your chest, And try to feel like your skipping rocks over water.

In the bag:
Driver-Cleveland HiBore XLS Tour 10.5s
Hybrids-Adams Pro Gold
Irons-Srixon I-701Tour PX6.0
Wedges-Srixon WG 50*/56*Putter-Rife BarbadosBalls-Bridgestone B330S

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A ton of tips are going to come rapid-fire here. I'll try to add a "feel it" tip, not so much a technical one. Something I've been working on, as my transition is a real problem area for me, is at the start of my downswing, when I'm sure I'm in a good top position, I try to feel the uppermost area of the back of my arms really squeeze against BOTH of my armpits. Once that happens, you can continue to swing through with your big muscles (hips/torso) and your arms are sure to come along for the ride, and on proper plane.

Nothing in the swing is done at the expense of balance.

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thanks for the tips. ill describe the full swing as best i can in more detail. the club goes outside the target line then straight up, but apart from that, the backswing looked generally ok, club parallel to target line, left arm straight and right elbow pointing to the floor. i am not sure whether i am starting the downswing correctly though (please say if i am not) as i pull down with my left arm, which is probably contributing to my swing fault of being too far inside and below the correct swing plane. what should the right elbow do on the start of the downswing, or does this not contribute alot to staying on plane?
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vexie - i dont really swing that hard at all, about 80% max but the club still gets "under the plane." my coach told me to hit pulls when i was with him before to encourage a more on plane swing, i went along with the idea, but it is completely useless. if i try and pull the ball, i will just have the complete opposite out to in swingpath, then when he says flatten it out, i will go back to my swing i have now so i will be going round in circles and paying more money for crap suggestions like he made
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Sry I couldn't help! I know what its like having a bunch of guys telling you what to do or not to do to fix your swing. The thing that works for me is to forget all the tips you read or people tell you!
Hit the range with a few clubs, clear your mind of any advice (good or bad) and go back to basics, hit the friggen ball until you hit it the way you want and know you can! You know what your good swing feels like. Its just a matter of finding it. So don't get frustrated. Start with half swings and work your way up

It once took me a few hundred balls+ to work out a driver issue. But I wasn't going to stop until I had it worked out.
When I'm hitting it best, the only thing I'm thinking about is good contact with the ball. I forget the rest! If I start thinking about my hands, my arms...anything, I'm gonna start to suck real bad.

Good luck to you....let me know when you work it out.

In my Procombo stand bag
Fusion FT-3
Fusion FT-3 3 wood
Citation 2 iron from the early 80's
Cronin Tour irons 4 - PW V-foil 56 Vokey wedge 58 Oil canV-foil 60 G2i CRAZ-E ProV1

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Hey Donkba,

My opinion is that just before you've reached a correctly torqued position at the top of the back swing, you should initiate the downswing with a slight hip bump towards the front of your left foot while keeping your head stationary (behind the ball by about two to four inches). Don't start the downswing by lunging your hands, arms, or left shoulder down in attempt to hit the ball! The last thing you'll want to do is hit early. By that, I mean, you'll want your wrists to release much later into the swing. If you start the downswing with an arm and/or hand movement, your release will start too soon, and you won't be able to stop it due to the 'conservation of angular momentum.' Because of this flaw, you won't contact the ball squarely, nor will you hit it with your hands ahead.

Now if you move down correctly, your right elbow will lower into your right hip. You'll want to turn and accelerate your upper torso, shoulders, and arms together and connected so that they'll catch up to, and then eventually pass your hips, ending up in a finished turned position facing well beyond the target. By the way, when your arms and club shaft have reached the point where they're horizontal to the ground and parallel with the target line, pointing away from the target, you've reached the beginning of hitting and release zone. Here, you'll want to power your forearms forward to 1:00 o'clock and down though the ball (12:00 o'clock is the target), all while maintaining loose wrists, but a tight left handed grip. Don't manipulate the club in any way, but allow it to freely release through the ball by itself. The club head should square up automatically and swing inside to square to inside.

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What works for me is to keep my hands in front of my chest until the top, and then basically lock that triangle of my arms and chest on the way down. So my back starts the downswing by allowing my hands to fall straight down, maintaining that triangle as long as possible until the club whips through the ball. The club should be moving fastest about 6 inches past the ball.

I do not pull down with my arms. When I do that, I am "swinging from the top" and "swatting at the ball." Swinging with my arms also causes me to try to time my hip movements, my wrist release and clubface angle, swing angle and even followthrough angle. I do not have the coordination to pull that off.

Maintaining the triangle of your arms and chest at the top for as long as possible, makes all those things happen naturally. That is what you want. To have as much as possible happen naturally. This way you can concentrate on aiming and shaping instead of having your head filled with just trying to make good contact with the ball.

WITB
Rapture 10.5
looking for my V Steel...wish I hadn't sold it
a3os 7 wood
MX-19 4 - GW MP-R 54, 60Studio Stainless Newport Beach

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I'll try to answer your post point for point;

thanks for the tips. ill describe the full swing as best i can in more detail. the club goes outside the target line then straight up, but apart from that, the backswing looked generally ok, club parallel to target line, left arm straight and right elbow pointing to the floor.

The club swings full length on the plane and every component of your swing must be adjusted to comply with that factor. What ever end of the club is closes to the ground points at the target line except when the club is parallel to the ground it is also parallel to the target line. With this said we take the club back on plane while the components of your swing are being programed for an on-plane swing. If you take the club back outside you are programing your swing components for an outside-in swing unless you compensate somewhere for an on-plane downswing. Our goal should be a pure, uncompensated swing.

i am not sure whether i am starting the downswing correctly though (please say if i am not) as i pull down with my left arm, which is probably contributing to my swing fault of being too far inside and below the correct swing plane.

If you start the downswing by pulling with your left arm than you are swinging with your arms, it's that simple. The first move should be a lateral bump with your hips towards the target. This tilts your spine, shifts your weight to your target side and drops your right shoulder on plane (period of shoulder acceleration). This shoulder motion is short but it starts you inert left arm in motion. Your right arm then begins to straighten moving your hands away from your right shoulder (period of hand acceleration) while you have the option of clearing your left hip. Your left wrist then uncocks as the clubhead starts to over-take your hands (period of clubhead acceleration). All of this started with a hip movement towards the target. Hips moved your right shoulder which in turn moved your left arm.

what should the right elbow do on the start of the downswing, or does this not contribute alot to staying on plane?

The right elbow and forearm are very important to the swing. Your right shoulder starts the club down on plane. The right elbow unfolds while the right forearm traces the target line keeping the club on plane through the release and impact. Most amateurs bring the right forearm into impact too flat pointing outside of the target line. You want that right forearm tracing the target line as the elbow unfolds. Look at down-the-line pictures of the pros at impact and you'll see the right forearm and shaft in-line. So not only is the shaft tracing the target line so is your right forearm.

David Laville, G.S.E.M.
The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor

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I was told that my shoulders and chest dont move on my takeaway so i kind of stopped my rotation and bottomed out my swing before getting to the ball and the clubhead ended up past my hands...
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If you still have VHS get Harvey Penicks "little red book" I know...VHS. I have not found it on DVD.

"The left heel to the ground will start the downswing" Simple but works...beat balls all you want at the range to try to figure it out...or just start with a slight weight shift.

In the Bag...Ping Hoofer

3dx Tour Square - UST V2 HMOI X Flex
3dx 15* - X flex
Baffler DWS 20* Aldila NV Stiff 4-GW 600XC Forged Irons- S Flex 55* SW - Burner XD 60* LW - Burner XD Craz E Putter <----ProV1x---> Pellet

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I've been taking lessons now for a couple of months. I think my coach is great and I've seen my ball-striking improve so much. Best of all, no swing thoughts! The golf swing is a lot simpler and more natural than you think. Your body turning with the arms following. So, when you are on the range, the downswing is initiated by your hips rotating. Your arms and shoulders follow because the lower body is pulling.
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  • 1 year later...
Guest
I also have this problem but have solved it by ...

o Initiate the downswing with your thumbs!

That is, don't attempt to pull the club around with your arms.
Start the club moving by pushing with the thumbs and wrist, as the club
begins to descend to about 45 degrees above the horizontal THEN apply
strength with your arms. Your hips will follow as the club continues down
and through the ball but they are now delayed relative to the arms and as
such you will not be able to hit inside or overly twist your upper body.
It feels very good to have the club descending and the body then tracking
along with the club so that you are square at impact.
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Best advise I ever got was to keep my arms in front of your chest, And try to feel like your skipping rocks over water.

Thats a good thought to have and to work on while you practice. For me, i used to work on bumping to my left hip (no swaying) and keeping my back turned away from the ball as long as possible in my downswing. At least until my hands where hip-high in the downswing. Its a single move, but i had to practice them both seperatley and in time it blended into one action.

Keeping my back turned to the target in the downswing makes me feel like im swinging under my body and hitting agaist my left side more, not spinning my shoulders wildly through the ball. Its more of a feeling instead of something mechanical, as im sure my shoulders do rotate sqaure at impact. And as Linkster mentioned, keeping the club infront of your chest is a huge must for this to work. Im not going to lie, it takes alot of practice and patience to hold your body off like that. Its unatural move and you want to rotate as quickly as you can. But the idea has helped my iron striking improve tremendously over the last 2 years.
THE WEAPONS CACHE..

Titleist 909 D2 9.5 Degree Driver| Titleist 906f4 13.5 degree 3-Wood | Titleist 909 17 & 21 degree hybrid | Titleist AP2 irons
Titleist Vokey Wedges - 52 & 58 | Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2 Putter | ProV1 Ball
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I've always liked the baseball drill.
Starting from your normal stance, slide your left foot back to your right foot.
Take your backswing and step forward (like hitting a baseball) and then swing. The key here is that you do not start moving your arms until after you've planted your left foot. It's awkward at first, but will give the the feel of the proper sequence of movements initiating your downswing. Good luck.

Weapons of choice:
Irons/wedges: Titleist Tour Grind
Driver:Titleist 909D2
3 Wood: Tour Edge Exotic
Putter: Odyssey White Hot

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