Manystyles

oh, and if you look on ebay, many sellers simply have a spot in their ad listing for the SN on all clubs they sell. I find that pro-shops who sell online do this, why? Because they are not shady. If a pro-shop was found to be selling fake goods on ebay (or in their store) the majors would simply yank their goods and put them out of business. I've been looking to get a TM Burner to play around with and of the 10 people I asked, 2 had the SN in the ad and I missed it :) 3 provided the info on request and even sent a pic of it 5 told me the "you could be a counterfeiter" excuse. the 5 that gave me the excuse were "non brick and mortar" sellers. So, based on this limited sample, and my own rules for buying above, I'd tack on, buy from Brick and Mortar stores just using ebay to reach a wider market, since those sellers have no problem providing SN's which raises the question, (to anyone here who is a strictly online seller of goods, or can answer it for me) if the legit, brick and mortar, pro shop dealers are not afraid of givning out SN's why would any seller be?

They are probably demo clubs. Why would a company suddenly not warranty their new clubs jsut because they've been returned as overstock? Overstock clubs end up on places like Rockbottomgolf and overstock.com (that is exaxctly how they can sell you a R7 for $80-100 less then a new one cost, because the season is ending, overstock is coming in and they need to get rid of it, so they can close out the current period.) Clubs that have been stamped no warranty are usually in store demo's or fitting system clubs from the tour van or a shop that they are getting rid of. Once a club line is discontinued there is no reason for Golf Shop A to keep their demo/fiutting clubs since they won't (and in some cases the manufacturer won't) sell them anymore, they will sell the new gear. Well, they can simply sit on it, or they can sell them to people who liquidate them on ebay or similar sites or do it themselves. I'm no expert, since I don't own a pro-shop, but I'd bet the clubs come from the company stamped "no warranty" can you imagine the cost of takin in a ton of old clubs just to stamp "no warranty" on them and then re-sell them? It would cost more to take them back and re-stamp them then they could make selling them! Demo clubs? they get abused, banged on. Hit by people who aren't good (that's why so many of them have skyball marks, bad chips etc.). So, there is an interest in the company not having a few thousand clubs floating around that are basically used and abused, sold to a retailer at low or no cost to use as demos then sent back for replacement. Why would they want to warranty a product that wasn't sold by them at what they consider fair market value for their product? They don't. here's a theoretical example: company sells 10 driver model X in various specs to a retailer to use in his fitting station for 70% discount per unit. dealer is less then scrupulous, sells them as new (or uses them for a while and sells them used). Since dealer got them for 70% discount per unit, he can make an additional 70% profit selling the as soon as he gets them. This amounts to a loss of 70% for golf co. X per unit. One way they protect themselves from this is by marking these clubs so that if they are sold, they don't have to eat the cost of a lifetime warranty on a product that was discounted super cheap and never really meant for consumers. I highly doubt they are sent to TM as overstock and returned stamped "no warranty" it would just be too expensice for the company to do, given the amount of $$$ the clubs are worth. Remember, as soon as the new club comes out the old one is worth WAY less. (see nike Sasquatch to Sumo to Sumo2, at retail the sumo sells for $100 less then the sumo2. Is the sumo 2 $100 better? Not in my mind, but that's the way the golf gear industry works. That said, I own a couple demo clubs and besides cosmetics, they work fine. You just have to watch out for dents and stuff because as demo's they can get abused and make sure the specs are standard. One demo I got a great deal on was .75" long over standard and I had to cut the grip off, saw it down and re-grip it.

For clubs with S/N I ask for and verify them. This is precisely why clubs have a SN. To prevent counterfeiting. To allow buyers to verify the specs of the club as the manufacturer made it. Ping is very good about this. I called them about a set of old pings and they could tell me the specs of all the clubs and even when they were last sent in for service, what was done to them, any repairs the ping shop made, everything. It's amazing how detailed they are with the records they keep (these were clubs made about 15 years ago too!) SN's exist to allow the seller and buyer to be confident that the item they are selling is as described. That is the entire point of SN's, to track products and their specifications etc. If the seller refuses to provide the S/N I don't buy, as I feel that there is NO REASON for a seller not to provide this info. None. The reasons I've heard from sellers who refuse to provide SN's are primarily versions of: "You might be a counterfeiter looking to stamp my legit s/n on your fake goods so I won't give it to you." This is beyond common sense here. Counterfeiters have a million ways of getting real SN's onto their product. In any city, in any country in the world is a place that sells authentic golf gear where a counterfeiter can walk into and get all the real SN's they want. Counterfeiter's don't need to go on ebay and email sellers asking for SN's, there are many easier ways for them to obtain SN's that are more effort and cost effective then emailing people on ebay. Sorry. To me this simple fact makes the excuse stated above no good at all. I don't buy from any seller, ever who doesn't give me the SN. Period. This has lead to me not getting ripped off. I also don't buy the newest clubs too often (sometimes I do, but not all that much.... , but usually a season or so old so I can get them at a steep discount. We all know that counterfeiters don't counterfeit two year old golf gear, so anyone who doesn't want to give an SN on gear that is old enough to not be counterfeited anymore I also don't buy from. On Ebay, I find that those selling new gear are not all that competitive with local pro shops and chain stores. If all it costs me is the tax or close to it (like getting a $400 driver for $350), I'll go to the local, authorized dealer, pick out my club and know it's 100% real. Sometimes I do like to buy used gear on Ebay which is where you can find deals, if you buy from legit dealers or spend the time to verify the info from individual sellers. Sadly, many people who know they've gotten a fake club will turn around and sell it on Ebay again. If you look in their feedback and they're selling a club they bought from someone who may be crooked, verify the SN or (as I do) just skip it. Used gear is a dime a dozen on ebay, another one with your specs will be up in a day or two. Developing a set of rules I purchase by is the best way for me to avoid getting ripped off. I like to try out all kinds of clubs, and eBay allows you to buy a club try it for a couple rounds and if you don't like it sell it and get your money back (and even make a profit if you get a club that needs to be refinished and you refinish it yourself). It means people without a ton of discretionary income can get and try lots of clubs. That alone has me leaning to ebay being good, you just have to take precautions. just 2 pennies

Agreed. I play Cleveland Irons, TA5 becauase I like the feel and the confidence at address. Had these Irons NOT worked for me (for whatever reason even if it was my swing and not the irons) I would be looking to change. All club use is subjective. I play TM Woods and Drivers because I hit them well. Straight and far. It happens that I can then save some Ca$h on the TLC kit since I use the weights for my wood clubs. I just got a cleveland 5 wood as a gift that I hit much better then my TM and this makes me think the TM is going to go on ebay soon. One of the best things about golf is all the choices you have and the exploration of gear. However, if you just walked into a store and bought all TM or all Nike b/c of something OTHER then "I hit these best" then yes, as has been said here before, the name brand loyalty may be an issue. If I found a driver that tacked on 10-15 yards with the same accuracy, that R5 would be out of the bag in a heartbeat.

I would agree with the above. Launch monitor fitting would be akin to you having lost some weight, going into a store to buy some pants, getting the correct waist but not looking at the inseam length. There are many components to the shaft flex you need. A clubmaker would be able to provide a much better fitting for you. Most clubfitters are also happy to provide fitting, and then pull the shaft from a commercial purchase and install one for you. This is where all those "brand new pull" shafts on ebay come from.

Most shops will charge between $5-8 to change the lie angle per club and re-shaft for around the same price, so around $10-$16 per club, with a discount on a complete set. I've seen shops do this for around $70-100 for a 3-PW set.

And this is why I reccomend the mod type N to upper mid / high handicappers who want to play the R5 and still use the TLC tech but don't want to play the open face on the R5 TP model. the type N has a neutral face angle and is not open. Mod it so it can take weights and the Type N becomes a monster with TLC weight technology. Why TM didn't make the type N or D TLC is beyond me. It is literally as simple as breaking the epoxy bonds on the palstic weight covers, and using an #4 easy out to remove a plug form the heel port. The ports are already threaded to take the TLC weights! It's plug and play from there.

I use a TM R5 Type N and an R5 Type N modded to the TP version I wouldn't use anything else. For what you would spend to get a R5 TP on ebay with the weight kit, you could have a used r5 type N, mod it, buy the weight kit on ebay and still have $60-$70 left over to refinish the club, and after that, have $30 left over and a totally unique one of a kind paint job on your "TP". I've hit my buddies r5 Tp and I like the way my modded version feels compared to his.

Hmm, Did you check the MPF? Ralph Maltby uses a rating system to classify Irons and if you really want to get game improvements I find his MPF system to be pretty good. I play TA-5's and I love them.

I, for one, say fix your swing. My best friend from college (who is as close to scratch as anyone I know) said a funny thing to me. The people who sell clubs, want to sell you clubs. There is no money in it for them in you becoming a better golfer. In fact, I've seen many salespeople talk like used car salesman to close a deal and sell you that new, top of the line draw biased club. I feel the best way to fix a bad slice is to spend the time and $$ for lessons from a pro, and the range and on the course fixing the shot. It seems to me the time spent fixing your drive will also translate to other aspects of the game as well, and overall more benefit (over time) would be gained by working on fixing the swing rather then buying a club to fix it. I'd also get a much better sense of satisfaction that I was growing as a golfer as I fixed my swing, and that's what we all play for right? To get better at something we love. Of course, this doesn't mean that a new club is a bad thing, but I wouldn't rely on magic clubs anymore then I would on magic beans.

I'd argue the most important factor with shoes is how do they feel. I prefer Adidas myself. Some shoes, like Nike, are made too narrow for my feet and they hurt to walk in.

The bags like the OGIO with the "Woode" top and similar models are as you said, they have a "tiered" spot (the Ogio's) like stairs along one side that descend. You can store your Driver, woods and hybrids in its own individual slot and then then irons and wedges/ putter go in the rest. I guess this is to cut down on bag wear and clattering of clubs in the bag.

Yeah. I buy all my clubmaking supplies from golfsmith. Frankly, you can't get them cheaper. Golfsmith has a 115% guarantee (they cover the difference in cost plus 15%) and I can avoid shipping by having it shipped to my local store and BUT, it's customer serivce that makes them stand out. Stuff like this. I've had components I bought from them fail and all it takes is a phone call to customer service and they send you out a new one. If you're part of their rewards program they can even look up the purchase in the computer. You have to be nice, and understand that golf compnents are like everything else, even under good quality control things will break. As to the cost of golf shafts the flipside of what was said above is also true, you would also be amazed at how some of the lower priced models of shaft perform well. Aldila's VX for under $9 (which can be had that cheap on sale, I've gotten some for around $8) is a great shaft for a beginner and should allow them to keep the same shafts until they get their handicap down to the mid-ranges. I actually use the VX in my "trunk clubs", which are just a small set I keep in a range bag in my trunk for times when I just need to get to the range, or when I'm driving and I pass a golf course and I don't have my regular clubs. I've broken one shaft trying to hit around a tree and it was no big whoop. They aren't that stiff but a bit of extra tip trimming solves that.

I say go with what you like. If you like the feel of the Titliest's go with 'em. As far as fitting goes, I agree 1000%. I would argue an off the rack $300 set + a visit to a clubmaker is worth more then a $900 otr set with no fitting or a static fitting based on measurements. Getting clubs fit to you is the best way to go. You might even look into getting a full set of Irons built by a fitter. The option to insert ANY shaft and ANY head combo is really nice and the prices should be comperable to buying an OTR set of nice irons. Most pro fitters will meet you at the range, provide several demo clubs, watch your swing and stance, distance etc. and then tell you why they reccomend a certain fit. Given that you seem in the market for mid/high end sticks, why not get fitted out? At the very least, you can tell him you want a certain set and then he can tell you what sort of shafting options are available etc. etc. Off the rack is by no means bad, but if you're going to invest several hundred dollars, why not spend 20% more and get clubs that fit like a glove? Just my opinion anyway. PS, if you're looking for game improvements, for some reason I favor Cleveland. Just personal preference though, no actual scientific reason to supprt it. As far as online (ebay) the place is good. 3balls golf is reputable, as is rock bottom golf (and their online site, rockbottomgolf.com). Stick to guys with real feedback, several years of selling on ebay and no less then 98% feedback and you should have no worries. Also try Callaway's pre-owned. They also sell on Ebay and provide their moneyback guarantee for online and Ebay purchases. Good Luck!

Myself… Hello! I’m new to the fourm. I found this place after a web search and now that I’m not a newbie member I can introduce myself. I currently reside in “sunny” San Francisco, CA and have lived here most of my life. I went to school here, and attended University (both times) here in the Bay Area. I’m currently a graduate student so I have a lot more time over then next year or so to play golf and it looks like I’ll be continuing my graduate studies for an additional 4 years or so which translates into lots more golf. I started playing in high school, quit when I went to college (Jr. year) after very badly tearing my Rotator cuff and labrum and badly injuring my wrists (go easy on the weightlifting is all I have to say). I bounced around with the game a couple more times in College, but would always end up in pain and quit. I spent much of my time with a club hitting at the range. However, within the last few years I discovered: Graphite shafts for Irons (I just refused to play them before b/c of a perceived lack of control) Yoga & Pilates Slowing my swing speed to avoid hurting myself again (I was a 100MPH swing when I was in my late teens early 20’s) And the combination of these three got me back into the game regularly. I try to play 18 at least once a week and get out to a local chip and putt a couple of evenings a week to work on my game. When I couldn’t play with consistency I shifted gears in two ways. First, I became a club maker and club fitter for my buddies and some people I know. I still build clubs, and handle my own shafting, gripping, adjustments and assembly work. I recently (as in last week) put together a set of clubs for my younger brother who is a scratch golfer (age 25) and We’re going to the range after work tomorrow to try them out, see if he likes the MOI matching or if he’d rather just go back to the traditional length increments and then we’re off to play 18 and see how he likes them. I can often be found building drivers out of component parts bought off of ebay and modifying them over and over, just to learn more about club performance and design. I like to buy old clubs and mess with the shafts, recording performance characteristics and tweaking them to achieve different results. Second, I started refinishing classic clubs. I spend a couple of nights a week working on classic maple and persimmon headed woods. I repair and refinish them and either sell them to finance my hobby of fixing them (cyclical, I know…), give them to friends (I just built a large wall display for a set of Ping woods for a friends office) or play with them for a while and then sell or give them to friends. I guess these are my moment(s) of Zen, in a workshop, wearing goggles and sanding, polishing, etc. to my hearts content. I’m glad to have found such and active forum and I hope I can add some insight or at least not sound like an idiot!