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snowyowl

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About snowyowl

  • Birthday 11/30/1967

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    Mini-Golfer

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  1. Good to know you are aware of S&D.; What you disturb when you are searching for the ball won't be able to be replaced. It is only the area where the ball lies that you disturb that will mean replacing in the similar lie. So you are of stance maybe a little disturbed, but you won't be able to rake it. BTW, you won't be dropping your ball. You will be replacing it where it lay, and re-cover with sand until only a small part of the ball is visible. Hope this helps - Snowyowl
  2. clearwaterms, Firstly, whenever you lose a ball anywhere, you have to proceed under penalty of stroke and distance. That is, you return to where you played the previous stroke from, add a penalty stroke to your score and continue (you need to count the stroke you made when you lost the ball too). Rule 12-1 covers searches for balls and what is allowed. A ball thought to be buried in sand is covered by this rule. You can probe and rake the sand (a club, rake or excavator are fine to use according to the rules) to remove as much sand as will allow you to see the ball. If you remove too much, you need to replace the sand so that only a part of the ball is visible. If the ball is moved during your search, there is no penalty, and you replace and re-cover the ball if necessary. Hope this helps - Snowyowl
  3. whilst on the practice range, leave a club aligned to your target between your feet and the ball. Make sure your feet are parallel to the line, and get someone to check your body alignment. Do this over a period of time and you become better at aligning yourself on the course. It takes some work though to ingrain it.... Snowyowl
  4. Fourputt. You've been getting no argument from me on the workings of R2-5, nor R34-1a. We try to adjudicate asap. If that means a bit of telephoning, so be it. I think we agree on what we must and should do. We just have different ways of doing it. Blue3715...it has been a good thread for all of us to have a say and learn from. Hope you have more situations to bring up at some time.... Snowyowl
  5. Fourputt, It would be dangerous to let a claim go unadjudicated until after the match. The players have the right to know the state of the match, and this includes disputed points or holes. Rule 34-1a deals with the idea of adjudicating on a claim by stating, "If a claim is lodged with the Committee under Rule 2-5, a decision should be given as soon as possible so that the state of the match may, if necessary, be adjusted...." Snowyowl
  6. Pom, Rule 2-5 clearly states that if a player intends to make a claim he must inform his opponent before either player tees off onthe next hole That is what I have stated in my posts not halfway down the next fairway. The club pro got that dead right . As said repeatedly, the claim is to be made before teeing off.... The playercan make a later claim if he can prove that his opponant gave him wrong information I referenced Rule 9 (that deals with wrong information) in my posts to blue3715. I can't work out if you are disagreeing with me, agreeing with more, or just supplying additional information....I think it's the latter. Snowyowl
  7. That's an opinion I don't share... I have a more than decent rules knowledge. That means in most situations on the golf course I know what I am doing or what another player can or can't do. Therefore I see a lot of rules breaches - which I draw to people's attention in tournament play, but not social rounds. But I play tournaments with a better standard of golfer, so it is less of a problem then. In match play I have the right to overlook the breach of an opponent, and I do this often - I like to have a harmonious round, and being petty about the rules doesn't help. Also, I like to win with my clubs. However, on occasion, I will be forced to use my rules knowledge and invoke something. I do this to opponents, who for some reason I don't like. Probably because they are overly zealous in their demeanour about winning at all costs. Case in point. In a match I played second from the tee. I hit out to the right into an area of very long grass. I said to my opponent, "I will play a provisional". The instant the club hit the ball, he yelled, "That's a water hazard over there (where the first ball went). You can't play a provisional for that, so you have to play the provisional." Seeing as though the provisional was a deep duck hook into the opposite side of the fairway, it was a cheap shot. Plain and simple, this guy was a "gamesman" and had gone over the limit with his win at all costs attitude. I walked up the fairway, and told him that I had not known there was a water hazard to the right, and that my ball may have been lost outside it in the long grass. I also explained that Decision existed (it is in fact 27-2a/2.5) confirming my right to play a provisional in this case. He wouldn't have any of it. Sniping and being a hardcase about it. Finally, I got to the long grass and found my ball. I turned to him and said "Peter. I know the rules better than you. I've told you what happens here in this situation, and that I was allowed to play a provisional ball. Now I will tell you what will happen. I am going to play my original ball. If you don't like it, you can make a claim under R2-5 and we can notify the committee. They will make a ruling on it. You have until we tee off on the next hole to make this claim." He stood there and watched me play me shot. We halved the hole. He won the match with his clubs later on. He still tries to lord it over opponents in strokeplay and matchplay. I hear this from other members. When I see him, I just say, "Been reading the rule book Peter." He says "Yes." I say back, "Not as much as me though." There is a chance we will meet in a matchplay tournament in a few weeks....like I say, I will try to win with my clubs. Snowyowl
  8. Blue3715, You're a bit wound up over me saying you have demonstrated an appalling rules knowledge....and resort to calling me something that is part of someone's anatomy. I'll give you a pass on that one. Yes, it is good to learn about the rules. Your profile beside your posts says handicap index is 8. Not familiar with your terminology, I take it to mean you play off an 8 handicap, which means on the odd occasion you hit a good ball. I just consider that an 8 handicap playing match play would have a pretty good knowledge of some basic rules situations.... If you read my original post again, I did quote the Decision relevant to your situation about hitting the sand in the bunker. I also quoted the relevant rules to help you regarding match play, and the sub-section relevant to making a claim. Most match play tournaments are run by a committee, and it is to them that you refer a claim made under R2-5. Some pros are part of a committee at a club, but often they aren't. The committee is to rule on a claim, and as you point out, a quick call to the club house to let them know a claim needs adjudicating on can be made without holding up the course. I am familiar with the level of rules officiating at PGA tour events, and at lower level events right down to juniors. Yes, professionals do call for rulings all the time. They are playing for their living, and sometimes don't appear to know about a situation. But often they do it to CTA (cover their a**) when it comes to being penalised for not proceeding by the rules. As a person who does officiating at lower level tournaments, we encourage players to call officials if they need us. We like to help them. Yes, posting rules situations here is great for learning. Perhaps I was a bit out of line calling your knowledge apparently "appalling". But if you read my original post, I supplied all the information to address your situation, and you chose to disagree. Another poster had to confirm its accuracy and then you chose to accept it. I didn't resort to calling you something that you aren't though, which is what you did to me. Enjoy your golf. Snowyowl
  9. Blue3715 You said i've played probably 50 matches in the last 5 years and only had 2 penalty situations.. one was hitting the wrong ball (called on myself) and the above. If your level of rules knowledge is as appalling as you've shown in this thread, you have no place being on the course playing a competitive match. Apparently now - via iacas' posts - you finally believe the points I was trying to make to correct your misconceptions. Snowyowl
  10. Pom - that Nth Qld sun has gotten to you... Blue isn't correct...I'll dissect his statement in a moment. If you hit the ground whilst the ball is outside the bunker, it is no penalty. If it then rolls back into the ground, no penalty. It will be a penalty if you then ground the club whilst the ball is back in the bunker. Think of it this way. If the club and ball are in separate places, no penalty. If they are in the same place (hazard or bunker), penalty. Back to Blue's statement - "Key point is, you must get a ruling before continuing.. you cannot agree to disagree and play on, getting a ruling later on. If you do not agree on the penalty before the next tee off, there is no penalty." I'll go through it bit by bit... a. Key point is, you must get a ruling before continuing.. Not so. A player makes a claim and this claim can be adjudicated on at a later point in time. you cannot agree to disagree and play on, getting a ruling later on. In effect, the claim system under R2-5 is agreeing to disagree and getting the later ruling, so this sentence can be interpreted as a being correct. If you do not agree on the penalty before the next tee off, there is no penalty. Wrong. If it is adjudicated later that a breach was committed, then the ruling will penalise that player - be it a loss of hole penalty, or stroke penalty (as in R18-3b situation). Put on some sunscreen tomorrow Pom Snowyowl
  11. This wasn't my shot... Played with a young uni student today - 11 handicap - but he doesn't play much. He was absolutely striping his driver all day... Our 13th is 302 yards downhill. Direct line to green is over a stand of 100 foot trees, but there is a creek running in front of the green. A large pond to the rhs of the green. I encouraged him to hit driver. It was right out of the blueprint. Started it to the right of the trees and with a pretty draw over and around them lands pin high and rolls to the back of the green. He three putted for par We have a 350 yard straightaway par 4 2 holes later. He told me he's driven the green with a tailwind 3 times before. Snowyowl
  12. Blue3715 Your post is wrong in several regards. I hit my 3rd shot which went about 10 yards to the top of the bunker (grassy face) and I reverse swung in disgust and hit the sand with my club. I never thought about what I did.. having "blown the hole". I watched as the ball trickled back down into the bunker. As I read it, when you hit the sand, the ball was outside the bunker. If this is correct, then there is no rule breach on your part. See Decision 13-4/35.5. Also in your post, you allude to the idea of not bringing up a breach in time. Firstly - in match play, a player can ignore a rules breach of his opponent (overlook it). Secondly, there is the idea of making a claim against an opponent. As the first reply to your post indicated, Rule 2-5 is the relevant rule. When a dispute arises and a ruling can't be obtained, the aggrieved player can make a claim, based on this procedure; i)he notifies his opponent he is making a claim ii)he states the facts of the situation iii)he wants a ruling on the matter (which can be later obtained) Your final statement "Key point is, you must get a ruling before continuing.. you cannot agree to disagree and play on, getting a ruling later on. If you do not agree on the penalty before the next tee off, there is no penalty." is plain wrong If you are going to play match play, read rules 2 and 9 carefully. Also, remember it is a test of golf, not of rules knowledge. Win with your clubs. Snowyowl
  13. sacm3bill, Listen to iacas...he's right. The minute you lifted your ball to drop away from the obstruction that turned out to be movable, you breached Rule 18-2a. You subsequently - upon discovering it was movable - should have replaced your ball where it originally lay. If you did that, you would have been penalised 1 stroke. By not replacing the ball and playing it from where you dropped it (I can't scroll down to confirm that's what you said you did though) you are penalised 2 strokes. The relevant decision to your situation is 18-2a/4 You couldn't avoid the penalty for the original breach.... Snowyowl
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