Yff Theos

Since I think the deal between you and me concerning not quoting, responding to and mentioning one another has been already cancelled. Please note I was trying my best to write neutral posts despite you could not. But, OK, no bad feelings from my part. First, I do not know who this Brian Manzella is. I know who David Toms is but, sorry bud, he is noone special to me. He obviously had a better carreer than Mac but this means nothing when comparing different streams of sport activity. If you want I will explain this to you better but I believe you do not need it. He will be as soon forgotten as next generation of Mac's fans enters your forum: that is my prediction. The teacher I admire: invite him to your forum, we shall see what he says about Mac's ballstriking in your presence. But, I am afraid, it will never happen for the reasons we both know too well. P.S. I asked you several days ago to ban me permanently from your forum. I repeat it: ban me, since I do not fit your forum and I do not like to upset people, even so arrogant as you are.

I wish every great instructor is so knowledgable, humble and passionate as Dana Dahlquist is. I love his Instagram short videos.

I have found also the source of the quoted here Mac's statistics in this thread: http://forum.brianmanzellagolf.com/golfing-discussions/7506-mac-ogrady-ball-striking-stats.html I guess it is worth mentioning that the person who started the thread and quoted them 9together with his forum accolites) obviously wanted desperatedly to belittle Mac's ballstriking quality. Never mind. What is interesting is that there are in the discussion two esteemed tour teachers that took part in the discussion (including one that I admire a lot) who not only witnessed Mac striking balls but also lots of other tour players closely. I just took some most interesting quotes from the discussion: I know Toms cant hit a one iron 250 stright up in the air and bend it in both directions and do the same low.Everytime. But who really cares.I played golf with him and quite a few of todays golf pro's including tiger. Mac is on the top of the list. Ball striking is a grouping of power and accurate shots. No Im not saying from 230 ones better, just saying there is not a myth about Mac's ballstriking. First off. Mac in his prime bombed the ball, for that time it was very long. Todays ball and clubs make it imposible to compare. Second yeah alot of guys hit it closer than these stats, Mac would be the first to say he lead the tour in flyier's to the green. I have played with him alot, when he went to square grooves which was about a month ago we talked about this. So really we can't compare the stats to today. However I still don't know many who can hit a 1 iron over a 90 foot fence and draw it to a green. Or hit the back of a hybrid left handed 240. Have any of y'all critics seen Mac firsthand or played with him so that your judgements of his ability or lack thereof are accurate rather than heresay?..I've seen Tiger and Mac both in competition..on the range of PGA Tour events close enough to feel the compression into your soul...Tiger best player..hands down...And a very impressive individual...However.... IMO...Mac would beat his ass in breaking windows...Ask my wife...she witnessed/learned first hand from Mac ...Witnessed Tiger first hand in the 1999 US OPEN [...] Do not worry, I will not bring everything I can find in the internet. But, the thread alone is worth reading because there are opinions of ignorant naysayers and two witnesses and great teachers, thus, experts. I agree they were not as objective, as Johnny Miller (who had no interest in belittling himself in comparison to Mac) because they were Mac's friends. However, I have no problems to believe them instead these other fellows. P.S. The title of my thread now is OK.

I think I have found an interesting old article about Mac that is partially related to the discussion: http://articles.latimes.com/1990-07-29/sports/sp-1594_1_golf-balls And there are the most interesting quotes: Johnny Miller used to call him dial-a-shot. "There isn't a better pure ball-striker than Mac O'Grady," Miller would tell people. But he started feeling pain in his back in January, 1988, and a year later, when it was almost unbearable at times, he received the news about his condition. Of course, even without the back pain, O'Grady has one more battle to wage before he can start thinking of being a virtuoso golfer again--with his putter. [...] away from the voices inside my head that tell me I'm going to push, pull or miss the putts. I'm going to start making putts because I'm going to stop listening to those voices inside my head. P.S. I can see the title of the thread I started has been changed again without my knowledge what is sad. Much sadder thing is that the new title does not reflect my idea of the thread but instead suggests something opposite to my intentions.

...and what is this broken elbow thing: I mean how was it possible that he received no proper medical treatment?

Ok, and viceversa, please.

Well, Virtuoso, if it is 2012 it would suggest the guy was over 60 years old with that swing. Phenomenal. True, I have not though about it.

Beauty! What year could it be, Mike? Mid 90-ties?

I did. These data do not refer to my examples. They just confirm that one can win with a just below average putting. Yes, and this is true. Poor means something different than just below average (which means very close to average). Read stories about Ben Hogan so you will know what I am talking about. Moe, Mac and Knudsen (all my examples) were regarded as horrible putters which is far from being just below average which would have not been even mentioned. For instance, if Jack Nicklaus says that someone has a million dollar swing and a ten cent putter it means something really unusual and not close to average by any means. It could be putting combined with mental problems, who knows. So what? Everyone back then believed in this. Lack of understanding the correct ball flight laws does not make them ignorants. They watched many pros on the range and could easily compare who strikes the ball better without thinking about putting or ball flight laws. And their verdict was that guys as Hogan, Moe, Knudsen and Mac were great ballstrikers. What evidence? I have no intention to do it any more. It is hard to convince people with closed minds. If Mac hated putting, he should have desired to hit the shots close to the hole, so he wouldn't have long putts, or at least hit the green more often, so he wouldn't have to hit longer par putts as frequently. Mac was a poor putter. But he was also worse than 30th, during his best two years, in hitting greens, which is all about ballstriking. Players in 1987 who hit far more greens than he did? Gil Morgan, Bruce Lietzke, Hal Sutton, Wayne Levi, John Mahaffey, Dan Pohl, Mike Reid, Tim Simpson, Mark McCumber, Tom Watson, Fred Couples, Jay Haas, Curtis Strange, Mark O'Meara, Kenny Perry, David Edwards, Paul Azinger, Bobby Watkins, Scott Hoch… goodness. What was the average length of THEIR careers? Ballstriking matters. Those players were all better ball strikers than Mac O'Grady (as were some others I didn't list), and that's just from his single best year. I agree to you. Your conclusions are good. However, pay attention to what you wrote:

Perhaps he played on tour for a relatively short period of time because he was mentally weak first of all? Yes, I read about it and I watched a movie about him where it was mentioned. Well, yes and no. There is a famous word "zone". Those who "are in the zone" play excellent golf. Perhaps the role of mental coaching is to teach students how to drive into this "zone" and stay there until the 18th hole ends. Interesting. The way he handled putts on the 18th during US Open 2 years ago reminded me more of a guy who could not bear the pressure. They are lesser known that those three players anyhow. Perhaps I should have not used the word "much" here.

Thank you. And I must say I liked your post. That makes me be more interested in reading and analyzing that book. Without any doubt. However, I can imagine a hypothetical situation that a scratch amateur has a great day and putting flawlessly while DJ has a bad day overally: the gross scores might be very close to each other that time.

Well, I sort of started that way but widened the subject with some more examples that could illustrate my point. Besides, I used Mac O'Grady name in my first post if I remember well. Disagree with what? With the fact that Hogan lost many important tournaments due to his bad putting? or with the fact Hogan was a better ballstriker than all his fellow tour players? Please explain.

What data and statistics has Iacas presented concerning the examples I had used?

Yes, this can be wrong. But this can be also right, which you do not seem to be able to accept. By the way, it is you who make yourself look foolish when arguing against opinions of knowledgable people from the past who were eye witnesses. You look even more foolish when you ignore what the best player ever said about Knudsen, by the way. It is a FACT that Hogan lost several important tournaments because of lousy putting. Lots of greats confirmed this when memorizing Hogan. I wonder if you are so ignorant in this point or you want simply to stirr the shit?

Yes, that is true. No, I am not. OK, I used the expression incorrectly then.