I shot well and was owe a small 3 digit amount from a few players. That's when the guy I don't play with often walks up and says he isn't paying because I had too many clubs in my bag. We walked to my bag and I counted my clubs and I didn't have too many. He then states look at the back your bag there is another club. Low and behold my 7 years daughters putter is in the umbrella hole as its been for the last year when she stated coming with me and wants to putt on the greens. All the other guys looked at him but he refuses to pay me out but pays everyone else. Whats your thoughts. All the other guys paid me out. 

During my weekly round with the usual Motley Crew...on the 4th hole slight dog right I drive the ball right.  I arrive at my ball and it is questionable as to whether it is in or out of bounds.  There is a white stake about 15 yards forward of my position and behind me is a large shrub/bush with no visible white stake to draw a straight line to determine the Out of Bounds line. It is for the most part a friendly round with some dough on the line to make it interesting so I ask one of my buddies for a ruling.  My ball is sitting on a grass line which is higher than that of what the golf course has obviously cut...so basically on a residential yard but at an angle would appear to be in play, but there is no other stake to determine this 100%.  My buddy immediately determines that the ball is out of bounds that the grass line determines out of bounds since there is no second stake to define the line.  Course score card clearly states out of bounds are determined by white stakes and or fence lines.  I argued this to be incorrect as how in the hell can a grass line determine Out of Bounds.  His logic was that he saw this ruling on the golf channel that if there are no markers indicating the out of bounds line that the difference in grass height defines the line. I cant see how this is possible simply due to the fact that what if the home owner comes out and cuts there grass to same length as the course? Now what determines OB by his logic?

A little long winded I know...but neither of us are budging on our position.  I have googled everything under the sun and for the life of me cannot find anything anywhere that would suggest that a grass line can determine OB.

Anyone have some insight on who is right or wrong here?  Or whats the correct way?

I took my penalty according to his ruling but immediately flagged down the cart girl to reload the Amstel cause I was a bit heated....

That was a little over a year ago.  Since then I attended an in-person Rules Workshop in Richmond, VA this past Spring.  A completely different experience from the online workshops, the presentations were pretty "standard", but the conversations in the breaks were really interesting.  The attendees had a wide variation in experience, from first timers to a few people with more than 20 Workshops under their belt, and one or two who worked with the USGA Rules Committee.  I took the exam in-person as well, improved my score to 94/100.  Through 2022 I worked as an official for both the Virginia State Golf Association and the Middle Atlantic Section of the PGA.  I officiated on about 20 days over the year, including two high-school competitions.  Recognizing that the Rules will be changing for 2023, I jumped at the chance to yet attend another Workshop, this on in Pinehurst just after Thanksgiving.  We had a similarly varied group, including the head of Rules for the Champion's Tour,   Unfortunately, that Workshop got cut short by the vandalism of two power substations, but I took the exam through the online platform last week.  I got my results yesterday, and I improved yet again, 97/100 right.  I'm EXTREMELY happy with this result.

So moving forward, I plan to continue officiating for the VSGA and the MAPGA.  I might explore some options with the Carolinas as well.  I guess I'm just posting this to brag a little, as well as to publicly thank @iacas for giving me a little nudge to start down this path.  I'll try to post again when something interesting pops up during my officiating days.

Does the rules of golf cover this situation? 

Model Local Rules

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The R&A seeks to engage in and support activities for the benefit of the sport of golf from The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews.

I was wondering what people's thoughts are on it and whether any of your clubs use it during comps? You go 250m down the fairway thinking you are all good but cannot find a ball that even your playing partners say "was just off the fairway". It was nowhere near trees no OOB nor penalty area - it simply cannot be found.

With courses so busy these days, the delays it causes is compounded on days when there are no carts, because you have to walk all the way back to the tee and then back again.

Do you start hitting provisional balls every time the ball goes slightly off the fairway?

I am thinking of seeing if the Club may put this in place (perhaps under certain conditions?). What are the pros and cons? I understand a Local Rule can be put in place on certain days, so they could do it during times of extreme weather/lack of mowing? Is this true?  

I can see one main problem arising: 
1. This rule can be used for OOB shots too (where they thought the ball would be safe but it wasn't). You could argue that making someone tee off again puts pressure on them to not put it back in the same area again, so they get some "mental relief" that they can essentially be back where they would for Shot 4 without that extra pressure.

Also, most of the currently marked penalty areas are because of an overgrown creek behind dense ground vegetation. The penalty areas are marked (roughly) at the edges of the dense vegetation (see picture example). Players cannot see the creek. The dense vegetation looks the same on holes where there is no creek and no penalty area. For consistency and to reduce confusion, we have decided to define all edges of dense ground vegetation as penalty area.  

This adopts a popular USGA recommendation from 2019.

Committee Procedures 2C(2) cautions: "A Committee may define the edge of a penalty area by clearly describing it in writing but should do so only if there will be little or no doubt where the edge is. For example, where there are large areas of lava or desert that are to be treated as penalty areas, and the border between these areas and the intended general area is well defined, the Committee could define the edge of the penalty area as being the edge of the lava bed or desert." 

We are going ahead, but IMO "little or no doubt" is not possible. For example, the "edge of desert", no matter how "well defined" is often not a distinct line. Sand and grass may intermingle. An edge defined this way will never be as clear as stakes or a line. We will see what happens! 

Other comments: I believe the change will improve pace of play. And have minimal effect on handicaps. (Seems like I saw a study of this, but unable to find it again.)   

Does anyone have a similar experience with defining penalty areas by physical features? How did that go?     

The obvious answer is to take stroke and distance instead of lateral penalty relief. However, it is the last hole and we have penalties for slow play, so players will be reluctant to walk back to the tee. Also, even if they hit a provisional ball, if they discover their ball went into the penalty area they must abandon the provisional ball. Still necessitating a walk back for the stroke and distance option.

The solution might be model local rule B-3 that allows a provisional ball for a ball that might be lost or in a penalty area. Does anyone have experience with this local rule? 

Other ideas?

I'll start:

When I showed up to play in my first ever golf tournament (this was early 2000's). I opened my bag to find my wife had played a little practical joke on me. The night before the tournament she had taken all of the golf balls out of my bag and written "I love you, Chet" and drawn little hearts in red sharpie multiple times on every golf ball. (back then I used a white golf ball. Callaway, I think.)

Anyway, near the end of the first round teeing off on the par-5 fifteenth hole, which runs parallel to hole 16. I was fighting a snap hook at the time and over compensated, hitting a fade into the tree line between the two fairways. The ball comes to rest in the right rough just off the fairway on hole 16. My cart-mate and I head over and I see a guy on 16 addressing what looks like my ball. He's not in our tournament as I was in the lead group that day. He's just out there playing with his buddies. I yell at him "Wait! ... Wait! ... Wait!..." 

He looks up at me. I can clearly see there is red sharpie on the ball. I can't quite read it from where I am but there's a lot of red sharpie on it. "I think you are about to hit my ball." I say to him.
"No, I'm not." He looks at his buddies who are waiting for him to hit his shot. 

"Are you sure?" I'm trying to get close enough to actually read the ball. But by this point I'm pretty sure it's mine. Who else would have that much red sharpie all over their ball? 

"It's my ball." He says and actually starts to take his swing. 
"Wait! ... Wait! ... Don't hit it!" I shout at him. 
He actually stops his swing. 

"I'm pretty sure that ball says 'I love you, Chet' on it and has hearts drawn on it. ... Is that how you mark your ball too?" 

He looks at the ball. Looks at his buddies. Looks at the ball. Looks at his buddies. Then in a huff he picks up the ball says "F**K YOU!" and throws the ball at me. 

I dodge the ball; It whizzes past me. He stomps off, pouting, with his buddies laughing at him. One of his buddies gives me a shrug and a half hearted apologetic look. 

Now the rules part. He threw my ball right into the middle of the 15th fairway. Leaving me a much better shot than having to negotiate the ball back through the trees. From where my ball was now I might even be able to reach the par-5 in two. At the time I was unsure if I got to play the ball from where it now was, or if I had to replace it from where he picked it up. Now I know that a pissed off brat throwing your ball qualifies as an outside influence and the ball needed to be replaced back as near as possible to where it was before the guy picked it up and threw it at me. That was the day I learned about Rule 9.6 and Rule 14.2. 

It totally ruined my round but I felt the S&D penalty was appropriate.

Specifics:

I was on the 9th tee.  I hit my driver and really thought I hit it well but the ball went only 20 yards into a waste area in front of the tee box.  So I re-teed it and said "I'm hitting 3".  On the 2nd tee shot I again felt I hit it crisp but the ball shot weakly to the left going next to the #8 green and during my follow though the shaft shattered @ 8 inches above the club head.  So I head over to my ball "Hitting 4" (I need to verbalize these penalties or I may fail to count them) and that is when they all said to not count any penalties because it was very possible the shaft was breaking on the 1st tee shot. One guy even tried to sound authoritative and said "There was no intent to play a broken club so the shot does not count".  They even tried the "Its not fair, if the club had not broke you would likely be in much better position so do not penalize myself".

I did take the S&D penalty and played my 4th from where the 2nd tee shot ended up and finished with an 8 on the Par 4 and lost my match by 1 stroke.  I know it sucks, but in my mind I see no way around the S&D penalty.

Comments? 

The Worst Rule In Golf | MyGolfSpy

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There should be a change here.

Their claims as to why it is overly harsh. 

1) Most golfers are not very good. 

Yes, but the rules of golf have been around way before pro golfer existed, and most were not very good. 

2) There are too much OB on many modern golf courses. 

Maybe were the author lives there are tons of courses with housing developments and tons of OB everywhere, but I don't see it. When I played on courses with a lot of housing, it isn't crazy tight that OB really comes into play that often. So, I think this claim is not valid.

3) PGA Tour players have the benefit of galleries and ball spotters to find lost balls. 

Yes, but I do not think it is consistent the further down you go the pro tour hierarchy. Also, this is just a claim to validate more bifurcation of the rules, and it's not really a good one. 

4) A lot of golf courses are not properly marked with hazards or maintained. 

This is true, but also the rules of golf cover this. A water hazard doesn't need to be marked for it to be a water hazard.  

5) It slows down play because you have to go back to the previous spot to re hit the shot. 

I get losing a golf ball in tall grass, or sometimes in normal rough sucks. If you hit one close to OB, or into the woods, hit a provisional. It speeds up play for a good portion of times you will have to take stroke and distance. 

Then the articles go into a few not really well backed reasons to further bifurcate the rules to make OB less penalizing for amateurs. Basically, they want the modified local rule of placing the ball in the fairway with two stroke penalty to be a one stroke penalty. This means that OB is now less penal than a lateral hazard. Imagine if the water hazard is at the base of a steep-ish slope. If you drop there, you will have a horrible lie/stance. I think right off the bat this stance is not valid. They go into where PGA Tour players get benefits over amateurs. Things like temporary immovable objects allow them to get free relief. Courses normally do not have the stands or other equipment needed to run a tournament. The argument is very weak. 

I might be willing to say that OB marked with a white stake and/or white line should be played like a lateral hazard. The scenario in my head is, what if there is a golf hole where there is a lake on the left, and OB on the right that goes down the entire hole. If you hit the ball into the lake, it is not playable. So, to me there is little difference between hitting it left in the water versus right OB. Though, you may be able to play it from the water. A lot of times a lateral hazard is not marked on the water's edge exactly. A lost ball is a lost ball. There is nothing staked, so it is hard to judge where it should be. So, stroke and distance make more sense. 

Yea, I think the rules make sense with stroke and distance penalty. I would say not overly harsh. 

This is how I mark my ball.  I have had a few embarrassing moments in the past where I've hit the wrong ball.  I started making a black "H" and it happened again.  So now I mark my ball this way so there is 0 chance of me hitting the wrong ball.  It also helps with people accidentally hitting my ball.  ProV1s are common and coveted.  But with my marking on it, people know its mine.

The thing is, with this amount of Sharpie on the ball...especially when I first mark it...i can often see blue marks on my club faces.  This is definitely not my intention, but I wonder if this could be taken as a way of me trying to read the marks on the clubface after a shot.

Are there any rule issues, here?  Ethical issues?  Anybody else notice the Sharpie on the clubface?

I also understand that there are some aspects that are allowed to be entered, and some that are not allowed. 

My question specifically is: In which form does this code of conduct need to be available? Is it enough for someone to say "that's part of our code of conduct", or is it a requirement, that the code of conduct is in written form? Also, is there a need that the local rule points to the code of conduct in any way?

For better understanding: I'm playing competition and the next course that we play has a "no smoking policy". I don't have a problem with it, as I don't smoke anyway, but one of my team-mates does, and someone told him "You'll get disqualified if you smoke on the course".  

Now I have looked at their local rules and there is no reference to a "code of conduct". I'm not sure if they even have an official "code of conduct" that states that smoking is not allowed.

I fully agree that he SHOULD respect this request from the club, but I am wondering if the club would really be allowed to DQ this player for this, if it's not properly documented in their local rules/code of conduct? 

This is an official national amateur tournament, so not just something organized by a club for its members.

My tee shot came to rest between line of golden furz bushes and cart path.  I looked at the lie and figured I could advance this ball nicely down the fairway.  It wasnt the bush that was bothering me but the cart path. Playing partners were high handicappers ( I'll explain why this was relevant ) and only issue they saw was the bush, not the fact that my ball was about 12" from the edge of the path right along the OOB line.  They could not see how a concrete path that was almost 1ft in front of my ball could be deemed to be interfering with my swing.  I have spent lot of time and money to get my swing where I am coming down on the ball with -3 or -4 Deg angle of attack and bottoming out maybe 4 to 5" in front of the ball.   My club was most definitely going to catch the path.  The two guys I was with couldnt grasp this and said any relief I get would be from the bush ( 1 drop shot ) and not free relief from the path which because if they were hitting it then they would have no issue with the path. ie High handicappers only see whats behind the ball,  not whats in front of it.   Ask a scratch golfer to hit a ball 3" infront of a concrete path.  Easy,  just hit it cause they are not concerned with whats behind the ball as they will be striking a descending blow.  High handicapper on the other hand is going to be coming down in most cases a few inches behind the ball and will be put off by the path behind the ball.  I just punched it out from where it was as didnt want to upset any one.  So in short what would you have done.  ?

So I'm trying to give my wife practical guidance on advice on the course to make things simple. Keep in mind that these ladies all have 30+ handicaps, are distance challenged, and at this time would never enter an individual competition.  The only ladies events they enter are team events - they are keeping golf social as maybe we all should.  So for casual rounds playing for individual score, I come up with the following:

Don't

1. Help each other read their own putts;
2. Give advice on whether to lay up or attempt to cross a water hazard;
3. Give advice on whether to chip or putt when just off the green.

Do:

1. Give advice on distances
2. Give advice on rules

I'm purposely ignoring the "what club did you hit?" because quite frankly in a casual round I don't think that information is helpful to any of these ladies. Any other thoughts?

We are playing a hole in which on one side of the concrete cart path is the grass on the other side is rocky, desert. My buddy hits his tee shot which comes to rest on the other side of the cart path under a prickly ugly bush. He's right handed but he turns his 7-iron upside down and addresses the ball left handed, with the club upside-down. Then he says "I get relief because I'm standing on the cart path." 

"Okay" I say.  

Then he drops the ball (from the shoulder as this is pre-2019) on the "good" side of the cart path within 2 club lengths no closer to the hole. 

I believe he should have had to hit from the crappy side of the cart path, by dropping the ball within 2 club lengths no closer to the hole. 

My contention is the nearest point of complete relief is in the desert. His contention is as long as it's within 2 club lengths no closer to the hole he can drop anywhere he wants. Who's right? 

Okay, now the kicker. He declares his ball in play. Now admittedly it is less than 2 club lengths from where it came to rest and isn't any closer to the hole. Then he addresses his ball (7 iron again) right handed this time and declares he gets relief again, because he's standing on the cart path. ... Which he is. 

He drops again, and now he's on the fairway, not even in the rough. 

So, with two drops and no stokes he's moved from under a bush in the desert, to the rough, to the fairway. 

Here's a picture which may help.

So he hits his 7 iron on the green. No penalty. I guess he may be right, but it's always felt shady and we've poked fun at each other over this incident for years now. 

What do you all think? 

When he's on the green, he is one of those guys that likes to line up his ball to the target by using the line on the ball. Before nearly every putt he picks up his ball, wipes it off a bit and then replaces it with the line pointed at his target. While he's doing all of that he marks his ball location with the toe of his putter. He never lets go of his putter. He hangs onto the grip and keeps the spot marked with the toe. 

I'm pretty sure he's not gaining any advantage as he seems to keep the toe of the putter still and seems to put the ball back pretty much exactly where it way. But my question is: 
Is this legal? 

My home course, Musgrove Mill, was severely damaged by Hurricane Helene. Today they are opening the entire course for play with two changes. Two par 4s, 14 and 15, are being played as par 3s.
 

My understanding is I should enter my score for handicap purposes on a hole by hole basis and omit the score for these two. My friend thought we should enter and PCC would adjust. The rule seems clear to me, but perhaps it’s because I have no experience with such changes. Any experts out there that could confirm?

Background: I belong to a golf club that organizes tournaments at a municipal course. Our club is trying to popularize and enforce the rules of golf in our events, but the golf course staff is not on the same page.

For example,  the course manager just sent an email to our club suggesting we should lift, clean, and place throughout the general area year round, citing allegedly terrible course conditions and lack of staff. The conditions are the same as the other public courses in our area.  

Also, the greenskeeper has refused to mark GUR or to allow our club volunteers to do it. Not sure why,  i think because he believes it is unattractive. He suggested we create a local rule essentially allowing players to decide for themselves what is GUR. 

To me,  this is not appropriate for administrators of a golf course. But perhaps financial concerns are more important than the rules? 

Looks like it's not dead yet...

Seems a bit silly. A small, paper thin sticker in the upper toe corner is deemed as ‘affecting ball flight’ but a crack in the middle isn’t. 

I recently hit a ball out of a bunker and the club hit a big unseen rock sending the ball in the wrong direction.  What is the ruling🤔it should be sand not rocks🤣do i just suck it up or?? 

Thanks everyone😊

I could find no mention of this in the Appendix where drop zones are discussed.  Anyone know of a prior Decision or a Rule?  Thoughts as to whether to do anything and if so , how?