You can almost read how the hole was meant to be played just from the illustration.

I’ve been restoring a few of these recently—curious if anyone here has come across others like this?

A quick TST search turned up older threads with a lot of comments on how difficult the courses are.

Does anybody know if they have “relaxed” the courses over the years or are they still hard as far as resort courses go?

I do not mind a hard course but my wife can get frustrated but if good scenery and good course conditions she may still enjoy a hard course.

What are your thoughts on their courses and the resort in general?

Edited for typos

Also happy to go play if someone lives nearby!

Plan:

Thu: Grand National (Lake or Links)

Fri: GN AM, then drive to Capitol Hill, play Senator

Sat: Capitol Hill – Judge

Sun: Ross Bridge

Mon: Oxmoor Ridge early, drive to ATL

Thinking about squeezing in Cambrian Ridge after Capitol Hill—worth it or too much?

Would love any feedback or tips from those who’ve done it.

Step 2
Click your state.

Step 3
Copy and paste the list here, if nobody else has yet done your state.

Step 4
Post your opinion about whether they got the list right, so far as you know (we won't all have played every course).

For Pennsylvania

1. Nemacolin Woodlands (Mystic Rock), Farmington (m)
2. Omni Bedford Springs (Old Course), Bedford (c)
3. Olde Stonewall, Ellwood City (m)
4. Golf Course at Glen Mills, Glen Mills (m)
5. Nemacolin Woodlands (Shepherd’s Rock), Farmington (m) *
6. Hershey CC (West), Hershey (c)
7. Inniscrone, Avondale (m)
8. Wyncote, Oxford (m)
9. Toftrees Golf Resort, State College (m)
10. Berkleigh, Kutztown (c)
    * = new to list

I wouldn't put Olde Stonewall as high on the list as this. I have been to 1 and 2, and I might switch the order, but okay. I'd put Hershey higher. I haven't played 4, 5, or 7, 8, or 10. So no comment there. Kinda surprised Toftrees is as high as it is.

I'd really be interested to see 11-20, as I wonder if something like Cranberry Highlands, Whispering Woods, Totteridge, etc. make the list in that block. 

Quote

On Friday evening, at an annual meeting of Pine Valley trustees and members, the club voted to remove all gender-specific language from its bylaws.

As part of the decision, women, who were also previously limited to playing the course on Sunday afternoons, will now be able to use the club without restrictions.

The original design was done by Alec "Nipper" Campbell and opened in 1930. It hosted the PGA championship in 1945 where Byron Nelson won his 9th tournament out of 11 consecutive tournaments. The name of the country club and the nearby city (which incorporated in 1965) comes from the geological formations left by the glacial till during the prehistoric Wisconsin glacier.

Moraine CC heads north and south, rolling over the natural hills and valleys. In this orientation, the golfer should see a predominant a cross wind from the west but could switch to from out of the north or south. A wind from the east would be unusual for this region. The original design was one of Scottish roots being that Alec Campbell immigrated to the United States. The image below shows an old aerial image. The land on the west side of the course is now all residential area where in the image is farmland.  

*Image from Moraine CC Website (History & Traditions - Moraine Country Club)

Over the years, like many courses in the US, thousands of trees were planted. 

*Aerial Image from 2000

In 2016, Moraine CC decided to return to their Scottish roots when they had architect Keith Foster restore the course. Over 3000 trees were taken out, bunkers were moved and redone. The bunkers were hand crafted flat bottom bunkers to give them a more natural feel instead of looking mechanically shaped. They also did massive irrigation where they have nearly zero water drain directly into the bunkers. About 90% of the course had to be reseeded. They called the existing turf Heinz 57 for all the different grass types that was out there. They planted two different types of bent grass, one for the greens and one for tees, fairways, and approaches.

*Aerial Image from 2022

This is the best image I've seen of the entire course post renovation. Again, per Moraine CC website (History & Traditions - Moraine Country Club)

The Fried Egg had a good review of the course. 

The Course Next Door: Moraine

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A detailed look at the architecture behind Moraine Country Club in Dayton, Ohio. This Alex "Nipper" Campbell design flies under the radar but is spectacular.

My take on the course. 

I like courses that ease you into what to expect from the course. Being that the land is hilly, you get some glimpses of the course but not the entire property from the first tee box. The first hole at Moraine CC is a microcosm of the course. A good length par 4, where you have room off the tee between fescue on the left and the right. A well-placed bunker off the tee, and an undulating fairway. The green, like many on the course has good contour to them and is slightly elevated. The front of the green is open for those who have a lower trajectory and can run it up. Two deep bunkers protect the front left and front right. 

Hole #4 is where the course says hello. A par 5, with a massive incline. If you are playing the correct tee box, you should be able to crest the hill. If not, then you will be left with a challenging layup as it will be a blind shot up a pretty significant slope. Once you get to the top of the slope, the hole starts to head back downhill slightly to a green protected by two bunkers up front, but you still have room to run the ball up the front. 

*Image from The Fried Egg (Moraine Country Club Golf Course Review - The Fried Egg)

Hole 5 is a short par 3 protected on all sides by bunkers. The bunkers sit about 4-5 ft below the surface of the green. This is great downhill short par 3 in that you feel confident you can hit that short iron close to the pin, but any mistake will leave you with a difficult bunker shot. A really well-done short par 3. 

Hole 7 is the downhill drivable par 4. It has four well placed bunkers, one about 60 yards out from the green on the left. Three by the green, and another about 30 yards out on the right. Like many of the greens on the course, the green is elevated about 4-5 feet above the bunker level. On this day, all three of us in our group decided NOT to hit driver. 

Tempted by Nipper: The 7th at Moraine

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A look at the short-par-4 7th at Moraine Country Club, a classic risk/reward hole on which architect Alex "Nipper" Campbell forces a decision

Probably the weakest holes on the course are holes 10 and 11, but I will say that they are not terrible golf holes, they are good golf holes. They do sit in the flattest part of the course and might seem a bit out of place compared to the rest of the course. 

Hole 13, you have another fantastic par 5. Where a good tee shot will leave you with a go at the green in two. The green is one of the smaller greens on the course, which makes the task of hitting the green in two much more challenging. Making it more challenging is that it is a blind shot to the green due to the undulation in the fairway. 

Hole 16 is another picturesque golf hole with an elevated tee box with the entire hole before you. A difficult tee shot with one of the narrower fairways, and three bunkers protecting the landing area. The green is protected by 4 deep bunkers. This is the style of green on the course. Slightly elevated plateaus, with deep bunkers and room up front to run the ball up. I was in the rough left, with a downhill lie. I tried to chip an 8 iron. Off the face, I thought I hit the shot I wanted. I saw it was hit slightly right and it ended up hitting the right bank of the green, ending up in the bunker. 

Overall, I would rate this as one of my favorite courses I've played. If you have a chance to play this course, I recommend taking it. It is ranked the 7th best course in Ohio (Golf Digest), and 5th best by Golf.com. I am glad to see it is getting the recognition it deserves. While I was living in Dayton. Everyone talked more about NCR than Moraine CC. Maybe because people could get on NCR easily than Moraine? NCR was a huge company in Dayton (making ATM's). It was a course for the employees of the company to play. I haven't played NCR, but I would be hard pressed to find it better than Moraine CC.

This gets like a 9/10 for me. I might move it closer to like a 9.5/10. It is definitely the best course I've played in Ohio. I love the property. Each hole felt unique. The views were fantastic. It felt like a course that challenged you but didn't beat you up. It was immaculately maintained. The greens were interesting, challenging and fair. I love the option on every hole to either fly it on the green or run it up the front if you had a good angle. I am a fan of having fescue on the course. They gave you free water. It is hilly, but still walkable. Not much to complain about. 

How many have you played? I'll count up my number sometime here soon (I don't know that it'll get to double digits).

When I select the course, it takes the user (me) back to the query screen 

I've tried using Chrome, Edge, and Firefox.   I've tried it on my desktop, laptop, tablet, and phone with the same results.   

Would somebody search for a course and see if the problem is on my end?  

thanks,

Denny

I know the LA area has Torrey Pines, Pelican Hills GC, etc., but the traffic can be bad.  Plus they are quite a distance apart.

Vegas has Mesquite golf like Wolf Creek and Falcon Crest.

We will likely play 36 holes everyday for the week.  Any suggestions on which area you would take???

Thanks for your input.

The course has 100-yard-wide fairways (in some spots, in others it "pinches" in to 50+). It's 100% pure target golf with a whole lot of visual, albeit extra and way off to the side - flair. It's circus golf at its finest - distract and confuse.

If you know your carry distances, if you know where to aim, it's one of the easiest golf courses in the world. If you can hit an average sized green and not leave yourself on the wrong tier, the greens aren't complex.

I've said and will say again: the course is one on which I think it's pretty easy to score if you can avoid temptation. It's a great course to take people to for their first time, but… if you're into shooting a good score and understand the proper strategy, it's not a difficult course at all.

I found all the blind shots contributed to long rounds (5.5 hours) without adding much value - there are enough blind shots that golfers have to walk ahead, walk back, re-check their line… check to see if the group ahead has moved out of the way…

Everyone should play it once or two or three times. I can't see it being a course you'd want to play 30+ times, though. Unless maybe you just really like going for some of the crazy shots you can find out there?

My opinion on Tobacco Road with one person led to a falling out. He writes that I'd be one of those "unimaginative and disgruntled players" who unfairly brand "The Road" with the stigma of being contrived… yet it is: how much dirt was pushed around to create Tobacco Road? Look up the definition of "contrived" now, please. That doesn't make it "bad" — it's just the definition of the word.

The fact that it's target golf - and not particularly difficult target golf at that - is backed up by the fact that the course rating tops out at 73.2 for the longest tees and drops to below par - 70.8 - for the next ones forward. Sure, the slope is high - 150 and 142 - but that's because the bogey golfer is not gonna carry a lot of the things he needs to carry (bogey golfer = 200 yards with his drives by definition).

Some of y'all have played it. What do you think? Instead of just parroting what you've heard others say, take a good honest hard look and let me know what you think.

P.S. I keep hearing that you either love it or you hate it, and I don't feel either of those things. I love taking first-timers there, but I don't hate it. I don't love it. I think it's a good but not great golf course.

A guy on GCA has been digitally re-creating the course, and I've heard they're going to use his map to convert it to a topo-map with 1' increments.

Pretty amazing.

LOTS of pictures in that article that I encourage you to check out.

Obviously, around your hometown, and especially if you have a membership, you tend to play the course you've come to enjoy. (But also, most players don't have a ton of courses nearby that are new to them.)

And when you're traveling to a new area, all of the courses are going to be new to you.

So, create a scenario in your mind where the choices are pretty equal: maybe you've traveled two hours away to play a course a few times because your buddy was a member at a public course there, but now another buddy invites you to the same area: are you going back to the course or trying a new one?

Or if that scenario doesn't suit you, try to picture your own where the choices are roughly equal from a convenience and cost standpoint.

(I'll answer the poll after I think about it a little bit more. It's a tough one.)

That's just two courses. On this list, as the mood strikes me right now, I'm going to pick the best holes 1-18 on these three courses. I could go into a LOT of detail, but I'm going to keep each one short. On purpose. Because otherwise I'd be here forever, writing, and also because my mood will lead to difference choices in a week, probably. Or a day. Or an hour.

Hole 1) All three are strong opening holes. Mid-Pines is the toughest. Southern Pines is the easiest and somewhat the most fun. Pine Needles is a par five with a tough second. I'm going with Pine Needles. PN 1, SP 0, MP 0.

Hole 2) I've never really liked the second hole at Mid-Pines. It's just a really tough shot early in the round. Pine Needles has a tougher par four. Southern Pines has a good, strong par five made better by the added length (so you don't get way to the bottom of the hill). PN 1, SP 1, MP 0.

Hole 3) A good par three at Southern Pines. A tougher par four at Mid-Pines. A great short par three at Pine Needles wins it. PN 2, SP 1, MP 0.

Hole 4) A classic Mid-Pines short hole with a tree short right that messes with people. A solid but unspectacular par four at Pine Needles. A good and kinda similar par four at Southern Pines. MP gets its first win. PN 2, SP 1, MP 1.

Hole 5) A testy par three at Pine Needles. A good par five at Mid-Pines and Southern Pines. Mid-Pines is on a roll here. PN 2, SP 1, MP 2.

Hole 6) A so-so par four at Pine Needles up and over a crest and downhill to a green. A good healthy par four at Southern Pines that bends to the right. Mid-Pines has another par five in a row that is… meh. Southern Pines takes it. PN 2, SP 2, MP 2. 

Hole 7) Southern Pines has a par three perched on a ledge. Pine Needles has a back-and-forth mirror par four of sorts. Mid-Pines has a mid-length par four. Southern Pines surges into the lead. PN 2, SP 3, MP 2.

Hole 8) Southern Pines has a downhill par four to a great green. Pine Needles has a tidy par four bending slightly right. Mid-Pines has a semi-meh par three. Southern Pines is really flexing now. PN 2, SP 4, MP 2.

Hole 9) A long par three at Southern Pines. Pine Needles has a par four along a waste area to a tremendous green. Mid-Pines has a shorter par three. Pine Needles takes it on the strength of the green. PN 3, SP 4, MP 2.

Hole 10) Southern Pines has a good par four, though unspectacular. Pine Needles has a good 90° dogleg left par five. Mid-Pines has a solid uphill-then-flat par five. Things narrow up a bit… PN 3, SP 4, MP 3.

Hole 11) Southern Pines has a semi-drivable par four with a hellish green (I've seen balls roll so far off the green after barely getting on…). Pine Needles has a good par four. Mid-Pines has a decent par three. Southern Pines takes this one, as I'm still unsure of the best way to play this hole. PN 3, SP 5, MP 3.

Hole 12) Southern Pines has a good par four. Pine Needles has a good par four, too. Mid-Pines takes it with a great, sweeping dogleg left par four. PN 3, SP 5, MP 4.

Hole 13) Southern Pines has really great downhill par four. Pine Needles has a long par three, downhill. Mid-Pines has a long and somewhat drab par three, too. Southern Pines surges farther ahead. PN 3, SP 6, MP 4.

Hole 14) Southern Pines has a good par three that was made better by a green enlargement. Pine Needles has a brawny dogleg right that tempts you to go long and through the trees left too easily. Mid-Pines has a good shorter par four. Pine Needles wins it. PN 4, SP 6, MP 4.

Hole 15) A good par five with a nice cross-hazard at Southern Pines. Pine Needles has a flat par five with enough interest. Mid-Pines also has a long downhill-then-uphill par five. This one's really close, but Pine Needles is in third. Mid-Pines takes it. PN 4, SP 6, MP 5.

Hole 16) An almost-drivable par four at Southern Pines that's not dangerous enough to punish a layup/wedge. Pine Needles is a mid-length par three that doesn't do much for me. Plus @Hardspoon almost aced it, so… that's a strike in my book. 😉 Mid-Pines has an epic downhill tee shot on a good sized par four. There's a tie at the top! PN 4, SP 6, MP 6.

Hole 17) Southern has a good downhill par four. Needles has a quirky dogleg left 80° par four. Mid-Pines has a solid par four. Southern re-takes the solo lead. PN 4, SP 7, MP 6.

Hole 18) Southern finishes with a good hole, but not the winner in this round. Needles has a downhill par four with a downhill lie for your approach. Mid-Pines finishes with an epic hole that plays to a green below the massive clubhouse/lodge. We have a tie! PN 4, SP 7, MP 7.

As I noted, my mood could change and I might pick other holes another time.

Also, it's interesting that MP and SP tied with PN trailing by three… Pine Needles tied my two-way playoff against Mid-Pines. Southern Pines must have leapt up and nabbed a few Needles holes. 😉

How do you rate each of the holes? Which holes are your favorite from each course?

Michigan has many public courses, perhaps too many.  Every year brings a handful of closings.  My personal count of courses I once played that are now subdivisions or farm fields has hit 10+ in the recent years.  I often wonder which course will be next.  So far, none of the closed courses have been part of my regular rota.

Anyone have a favorite course shut down?

Over the years of chasing the top 100 UK courses I have managed to collect a fair amount of course guides. The intent was to have these on display somewhere in the garage (Poor excuse for a man cave). Does anybody have any previous experience of displays or know of any great ideas?