Best Handicap To Most Appreciate Course Architecture?

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Bo the Golfer said:

I really think any handicap can appreciate CGA. 

Not the question.

[Bo the Golfer]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Not the question.

Yes it was. The article was that they thought it was a 7-8 handicap that can best appreciate golf course architecture. You asked what do you think is the best handicap to appreciate CGA, I think my post answers what I think.

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Bo the Golfer said:

Yes it was. The article was that they thought it was a 7-8 handicap that can best appreciate golf course architecture. You asked what do you think is the best handicap to appreciate CGA, I think my post answers what I think.

No, it doesn’t.

Unless you think any 36 handicap is going to be equally capable as a 3, you didn’t answer the question.

You said “can.” The question is what “is.”

I also don’t really care what the OP on another forum said. I linked only to not take credit for the idea. Not to give the OP there credit or weight.

[klineka]

2 minutes ago, Bo the Golfer said:

Yes it was. The article was that they thought it was a 7-8 handicap that can best appreciate golf course architecture. You asked what do you think is the best handicap to appreciate CGA, I think my post answers what I think.

The question is what is the best handicap to MOST appreciate course architecture.

Not what handicaps can appreciate course architecture, but what is the best handicap to appreciate it the most.

The answer to what handicap appreciates course architecture the most logically can't be "any", because if any handicaps appreciated it equally, then there wouldn't be a need to post the question.

[criley4way]

32 minutes ago, klineka said:

The question is what is the best handicap to MOST appreciate course architecture.

Not what handicaps can appreciate course architecture, but what is the best handicap to appreciate it the most.

The answer to what handicap appreciates course architecture the most logically can't be "any", because if any handicaps appreciated it equally, then there wouldn't be a need to post the question.

Klineka the answer can be any. The assertion is that playing ability and ability to appreciate architecture are not linked. 

I agree that they are not linked. I know  <10 hcp who are great athletes and score well due to physical ability and others who understand the course and design but lack the physical ability to execute the shots and thus are 18+ hcp. My old 4-ball partner understood the strategy better than I do and could appreciate the design but lacked the physical ability to kit consistent shots.

[klineka]

2 minutes ago, criley4way said:

Klineka the answer can be any.  

But the question says what IS the best handicap to most appreciate course architecture. 

Technically any handicap CAN be the best, but the question is asking you to determine what handicap you think IS the best to most appreciate the course architecture.

The question was written in a way that forces you to choose a specific handicap, or a handicap range 

[iacas]

They could genuinely think there’s not a single specific range. I don’t agree at all, but they can reject the premise.

[JxQx]

I think it would be anyone under a 7 handicap.

[Bo the Golfer]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

The question is what is the best handicap to MOST appreciate course architecture.

Not what handicaps can appreciate course architecture, but what is the best handicap to appreciate it the most.

The answer to what handicap appreciates course architecture the most logically can't be "any", because if any handicaps appreciated it equally, then there wouldn't be a need to post the question.

And my answer would still be any. A +1 could give a damn about the architecture other than ok, I know my ball needs to go there. I don't carry an official handicap but would probably be between a 16-20 but I love how a course is set up and trying to figure out what the architect was trying to do. In that scenario I appreciate the architecture of the course much more IMHO than the +1. I'm smart enough to get what people are trying to say about the lower handicaps but I just think it's a broad stroke that is incorrect.

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Bo the Golfer said:

And my answer would still be any. A +1 could give a damn about the architecture

could is not what the question asks.

Is a +1 likely in a better position to judge and appreciate the course architecture than a 36 handicapper?

I have a hard time thinking they're equals in that regard. In general. Yes, it's possible to find a 36 and a +1 where the 36 is more able to appreciate architecture, but it's not likely, I would argue. In other words, the average ability to appreciate course architecture from all the +1s is likely greater than the average ability to appreciate course architecture from all the 36s… many of whom might see the golf course as purely the place where they drink beer on Thursdays. 😛

5 hours ago, Bo the Golfer said:

I don't carry an official handicap but would probably be between a 16-20 but I love how a course is set up and trying to figure out what the architect was trying to do.

You're one person. So that's not the question.

[Bo the Golfer]

@iacas one of those situations where we'll have to agree to disagree. 

[iacas]

I still don’t think you get the question.

A 36 is closer to a non-golfer and while a non-golfer could appreciate architecture as well as a golfer, odds are they will not.

[Bo the Golfer]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

I still don’t think you get the question.

A 36 is closer to a non-golfer and while a non-golfer could appreciate architecture as well as a golfer, odds are they will not.

Question seems pretty simple. Best handicap to most appreciate course architecture? I don't think having a differing opinion from yours makes my understanding of English any worse.

[iacas]

41 minutes ago, Bo the Golfer said:

Question seems pretty simple. Best handicap to most appreciate course architecture? I don't think having a differing opinion from yours makes my understanding of English any worse.

I’m not saying you’re misunderstanding the question because you have a different opinion than me.  I’m saying you’re misunderstanding the question because you are confusing the word “can” or “could” and what the question asks. 

It’s not about what’s possible but likely. You've supplied no logic to your posts, no real reason, just a single example here or there. The question is not about single examples, or outliers, or what's possible.

[mcanadiens]

Put it this way ...

A miserable hack like me can look at a course and understand some of the strategy involved in playing it, but I can't execute it.

Being able to hit the different types of shots, as a low cap would, can't help but make one's appreciation of the course design that much more discerning.

 

[Bo the Golfer]

ap·pre·ci·ate

VERB

appreciates (third person present) · appreciated (past tense) · appreciated (past participle) · appreciating (present participle)

1. recognize the full worth of.

   "she feels that he does not appreciate her"

   synonyms:

   value · respect · prize · cherish · treasure · admire · hold in high regard ·

   [more]

   hold in esteem · rate highly · think highly of · think much of · have a high opinion of · set (great) store by

   • be grateful for (something).
     "I'd appreciate any information you could give me"
     synonyms:

     be grateful for · be thankful for · give thanks for · be obliged for ·

     [more]

     be indebted for · be beholden for · be in your debt for · be appreciative of
     antonyms:

     disparage
2. understand (a situation) fully; recognize the full implications of.

   "they failed to appreciate the pressure he was under" ·

   [more]

   "I appreciate that you cannot be held totally responsible"

   synonyms:

   acknowledge · recognize · realize · know · be aware of ·

   [more]

   be conscious of · be cognizant of · be alive to · be sensitive to · be alert to · sympathize with · understand · comprehend · perceive · discern · take on board · be wise to

   antonyms:

   be unaware of
3. rise in value or price.

   "they expected the house to appreciate in value"

I think we can all agree to throw out the #3 as it has no bearing in this situation. We are left with #1, "recognize the full worth of" or #2, "understand (a situation) fully; recognize the full implications of". Now in your comeback you talked about a 36 handicap. I never mentioned a 36 and I think that is the extreme end of the spectrum. The average handicap is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 15. Do I believe a + handicap can more appreciate the course architecture than a 15? No. Some may just as some 15's may appreciate it more than the some +'s. In using myself as an example I'm talking about my experience. I've played with better players and I have never encountered a situation where their appreciation of course architecture was more extensive than my own. I understand where to play a shot and where not to and how the architect intended the hole/course to be played. I may not have the same skill to pull it off but that is a different discussion. I stand by my answer of any handicap because 1) no one can really answer this question. By your logic a 3 would appreciate it more than a 5, or a 5 more than a 7. Really? That's unproveable in my opinion as from my experience I haven't seen that. 2) I don't believe that being better at something automatically makes you an expert on all aspects. Appreciating course architecture, much like putting skill, is one of those areas than can be equal across handicaps.

Edited April 5, 2019 by iacas
fixed bad formatting

[DaveP043]

33 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Put it this way ...

A miserable hack like me can look at a course and understand some of the strategy involved in playing it, but I can't execute it.

Being able to hit the different types of shots, as a low cap would, can't help but make one's appreciation of the course design that much more discerning.

I understand what you're saying, but the very best players may be blind to design features that impact lesser mortals.  If you can hit it past all the fairway bunkers, who cares how they're angled, and how their placement might impact a 12 handicapper?. Those design features are still important, in the overall evaluation and appreciation of course design.  I can see that reasoning in the original post's suggestion that a 7 handicap might be better positioned, skill-wise, to really appreciate course design than a top touring pro.  

I on't believe there's a specific "best" skill level for appreciating golf course design.  I do believe that playing something like bogey golf is kind of a minimum requirement, but I can't persuade myself that playing better than that makes someone a better judge of design.

[Bo the Golfer]

8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I understand what you're saying, but the very best players may be blind to design features that impact lesser mortals.  If you can hit it past all the fairway bunkers, who cares how they're angled, and how their placement might impact a 12 handicapper?. Those design features are still important, in the overall evaluation and appreciation of course design.  I can see that reasoning in the original post's suggestion that a 7 handicap might be better positioned, skill-wise, to really appreciate course design than a top touring pro.  

I on't believe there's a specific "best" skill level for appreciating golf course design.  I do believe that playing something like bogey golf is kind of a minimum requirement, but I can't persuade myself that playing better than that makes someone a better judge of design.

 

1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

Put it this way ...

A miserable hack like me can look at a course and understand some of the strategy involved in playing it, but I can't execute it.

Being able to hit the different types of shots, as a low cap would, can't help but make one's appreciation of the course design that much more discerning.

 

^^^^ these. I had a post that got screwed up because of cut and past issues but @DaveP043 and @mcanadiens are basically stating what I was saying.