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Flagstick In/Out Causing Delays


xrayvizhen
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23 minutes ago, RemyM said:

If everyone just used continuous putting it will speed up play.  Putt until the ball is holed and do whatever you want with the flag.

I disagree.

Continuous putting can be slower.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Helping each other......communicating.....you guys are making way too much sense.

The biggest time waster is the arses that marks a one foot putt. 

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10 hours ago, xrayvizhen said:

It was my understanding that the new rule allowing the flagstick to be left in was intended to speed up play. I don't know about anyone else but I'm finding that it's causing just the opposite effect. One person in the foursome might want it in while others might want it out. Personally, I would prefer to keep it in all the time but some other guys I've been playing with want it in on downhill putts and out on uphill putts. Most everyone is OK with it in on long putts but once closer to the hole opinion varies. Personally, I find those testy 3 and 4 footers easier with the stick in, yet I've heard others say the hole "feels smaller" that way. The end result is there is a constant shuffling of the stick in and out, in and out which is causing more time to be taken on the green than previously. I'm wondering what others are experiencing.

I am seeing the EXACT same thing down to the T.

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I have found it faster to leave it in. Even with the occassional golfer who wants it out. It's a time saver for the most part. 

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I think leaving the pin in helps more often than not.  There is still an odd quality about it, once in a while, but that is to be expected.  One cannot erase 40 years experience in a few months time.  I've been missing a lot of 12 to 18 inch putts lately.  I think I am, subconsciously, avoiding contact with the stick.  That is ridiculous, dumb, etc...but it is a recent development and I cannot think of any other reason that this would be happening.  I blame my grandfathers, and my dad, and his friends, and everybody else I've either met or heard of.  They were the ones that didn't think of this decades ago...or explain that whatever they were talking about was unlikely to be true once I'd reached their age.  I can't really blame them for that...and I'm carrying on the tradition...for the time being.

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12 hours ago, iacas said:

I disagree.

Continuous putting can be slower.

I disagree, my experience has shown it to be faster.

Rob Tyska

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59 minutes ago, RemyM said:

I disagree, my experience has shown it to be faster.

If people are doing things properly, continuous putting is slower.

 The reason is because while you’re putting, I should be preparing to putt.  As soon as you putt, I’m ready, and putt as soon as you mark your ball.  In continuous putting, you mark, adjust, read the next putt, and finally hit it, while I’m sitting there waiting.  Ultimately, we’ve lost the benefit of the efficiency derived from both of us doing several things simultaneously.  

 

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In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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17 hours ago, rehmwa said:

Stupid example -

 

@DaveP043  (Hey Dave - just in case - by that, I meant I was offering another stupid example....it was not a comment on your post of course)

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

 In continuous putting, you mark, adjust, read the next putt, and finally hit it,

 

you got it - if you just walk up and finish the next putt - it's quicker.  If you need to do all that (reset and go through your whole process again) it's slower.

I'd hope it's faster in that if you have a decent putt, then the followup putt doesn't require a full reset.  But I don't mind if someone has to reset.  If so, I'd rather they mark and go through their process, I'll bang mine in at the same time.

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Bill - 

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Yeah, continuous putting is fine when you have a tap-in. If you need to re-read your putt or anything like that, best to mark and do it while someone else is putting. Plus, sometimes continuous putting isn't possible without tromping on people's lines.

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1 hour ago, DeadMan said:

Yeah, continuous putting is fine when you have a tap-in. If you need to re-read your putt or anything like that, best to mark and do it while someone else is putting. Plus, sometimes continuous putting isn't possible without tromping on people's lines.

I usually don't need to re-read a putt that I already read and just saw what it actually did.  I want to putt while it's fresh in my memory.  Mark it, align it, do my routine and hit it again.  I can fix spike marks now if that's a problem, and someone has already stepped on my line at some point before I got there.  My group has switched to continuous putting this year and our rounds have been shorter.

Rob Tyska

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On 4/9/2019 at 8:07 AM, nevets88 said:

Yeah, when I opted to leave it in and others in my group wanted it out, it caused delays, so I just said screw it, we'll do it the old way and that's what I'll do from now on.

One guy said I know you can leave it in and my chances are better but it's just weird, I like it the old way. People don't like change.

In another round, others were fine with leaving it in and it did speed things up.

I played with a group where I was the only one who believed the statistics.  When I said that testing has shown that leaving the flagstick in the holes resulted in generally easier putting, I was laughed down.  The comment was "Oh, we one of them in the group."  Since it was a tournament I had no choice in my teammates, and since we won it was good that I didn't make a big deal of it. 

Left to my own devices, I'd have played more putts with the stick in the hole than I did that day.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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  • 2 weeks later...
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@RemyM, these are the kinds of things to which I was referring.

On 4/10/2019 at 7:41 AM, David in FL said:

If people are doing things properly, continuous putting is slower.

The reason is because while you’re putting, I should be preparing to putt.  As soon as you putt, I’m ready, and putt as soon as you mark your ball.  In continuous putting, you mark, adjust, read the next putt, and finally hit it, while I’m sitting there waiting.  Ultimately, we’ve lost the benefit of the efficiency derived from both of us doing several things simultaneously.  

… and…

On 4/10/2019 at 10:45 AM, DeadMan said:

Yeah, continuous putting is fine when you have a tap-in. If you need to re-read your putt or anything like that, best to mark and do it while someone else is putting. Plus, sometimes continuous putting isn't possible without tromping on people's lines.

Yeah.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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  • 2 weeks later...

The groups I have played with have all been understanding and flexible. I think its natural to leave the flag in when everyone is outside 20-30 feet but once everyone is closer and someone has to walk by the flag they just pull it.  Really haven't noticed a different in faster or slower play. Also haven't met anyone that demanded the flag to be placed back in or out after the initial decision has been made.

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What I like about leaving the flag stick in is that people are more willing to putt while people are off the green. I think it has helped ready golf a bit in that regard. 

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My usual group was in the practice of laying our other clubs (sand wedges) on the flagstick so we would not forget them.  With the pin in now I have to be conscious of where I laid the other club down.  Have to come up with another system to keep up with the clubs on the green.  

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What I am finding is that the holes are getting beat up a bit more as people aren’t as careful as they should be digging the ball out with the flagstick still in...

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In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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I'd guess 90% of the folks I play with, including strangers, are leaving the stick in.  It seems to speed things up a little bit.  I like the flow better, the ability to take a long putt while others are chipping or looking for a ball etc. is what I'm referring to.

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