Jump to content
IGNORED

Will Jordan Spieth Come Back?


Vinsk
Note: This thread is 766 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

What I do see from my untrained eye is almost every time JS is in his shot ...he looks indecisive. He’s more fidgety..almost like he’s got too many swing thoughts going on. 

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Not having any information on what he’s been doing makes this difficult.

The question I've posed is somewhat simple: if he's so great on Thu/Fri, and not on Sat/Sun, is it mechanical? Why don't the mechanical issues appear on Thu/Fri?

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

If he began to chase distance, as has been stated but not confirmed, then I would say he’s done something mechanical that screwed up his swing.

He had a very good 2017… which is well after he's been said (in a few hearsay-level posts) to have been "chasing distance." Is there any non-third-party evidence of this? After 2017?

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Jordan has been saying in interviews for at least two years that he’s ‘getting it back.’ And by ‘back’ I can only assume he means making a strong performance and even winning.

Do you expect him to just say "I'm in the weeds, completely lost"?

Are his Thu/Fri rounds evidence of his "getting it back"? (Not that they're awesome, but they're better than average.)

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t think JS’s goal is to be an average PGA Tour player.

Nobody said it was, but the statement that he's below-average doesn't have a lot of merit.

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

He’s not meeting his goals working with CM but I don’t know if he’s worked with anyone else.

What are his goals?

And why would switching to someone he hasn't known since he was 12 help him get to his goals much more quickly and/or easily?

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

To my knowledge JS has done nothing other than beat balls with CM. If that’s true I don’t think it’s what’s best for him.

What do what other people do - including Tony Finau, who can't hold JS's jock when you compare careers - have to do with what Jordan needs to do?

I could cite a number of people who switched things — caddies, equipment, coaches — and went into a slump. Played badly. Etc.

Do you think JS has a sort of Stockholm Syndrome with CM or something?


Look, they have plenty of force plate data, 3D data, video, etc. on JS from 2015 to 2017.

If he wanted to get his old swing back, it would be a matter of:

  • looking at those things.
  • seeing if he can even physically do it.
  • practicing that stuff.

If Jordan was "chasing more distance" you'd think his clubhead speed would have gone up at the expense of accuracy. Here are his clubhead speed for driver stats from 2015 to 2020:

  • 2015: 112.79 (97/190)
  • 2016: 111.86 (108/188)
  • 2017: 113.11 (108/194)
  • 2018: 113.44 (104/194)
  • 2019: 113.5 (109/192)
  • 2020: N/A

Sorry, I don't think a < 1 MPH clubhead speed improvement provides any support for the idea that he's chased distance.

  • Informative 1

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 8/10/2020 at 10:14 AM, Vinsk said:

he looks indecisive. He’s more fidgety..almost like he’s got too many swing thoughts going on

haven't followed this topic much, but saw him a couple times at the pga and he had a funky waggle like JT but longer before he swung.  just looks uncomfortable.

 

Edited by Wanzo

Matt          My Swing

 

 :ping: G425 Max Driver

Sub 70 3 wood, 3 hybrid and 5-p 639CB

Edison wedges 51, 55, 59

Sub 70 004 Mallet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

13 hours ago, Wanzo said:

haven't followed this topic much, but saw him a couple times at the pga and he had a funky waggle like JT but longer before he swung.  just looks uncomfortable.

 

noticed that myself, never seen him do that half takeback like JT before in his routine... then today at Wyndham, wasn't doing it.  His fidgeting does seem to have gotten worse the last couple years, at least he's not grabbing the towel 10,000 times anymore 😂.

 

Curious what someone else with far more knowledge on the golf swing thinks though of the commentators remark today, I believe it was Trevor Immelman and Aaron Oberholser who both agreed that if he just switched to playing a cut off the tee, it would solve a lot of his issues.

Callaway XR 9.5 + 1, Taylormade R15 3 Wood, Burner 3 Rescue, Callaway XHot 5H, Warbird 4H, Nike Vapor Fly 6-AW Irons, Titleist Vokey 54, 60 Wedges, Taylormade Rossa Fontana Putter, Srixon Z-Star Tour Yellow.

Best Score 2017:  82 (Traditions at the Glen, Par 70)

Favorite Course - Conklin Players Club (Par 72) - Best Score 86

Link to comment
Share on other sites


At his level, its all between his ears and coming out via his swing. That's an obvious oversimplification of the situation but he just doesn't have that confident swagger thing going on. I watched him hit the one OB where Faldo was questioning his set-up and then yank. I have to think when you lose your confidence to some degree from a 10 to say a 7 you got to get it back up there on that big stage. Seems like any weakness is exploited at that level especially the mental game. I could be totally off base. 

  • Like 1

Cobra LTDx 10.5* | Big Tour 15.5*| Rad Tour 18.5*  | Titleist U500 4-23* | T100 5-P | Vokey SM7 50/8* F, 54/10* S, SM8 58/10* S | Scotty Cameron Squareback No. 1 | Vice Pro Plus  

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • 1 month later...
AgEXQXZHT0lrYm84UV9xc2l3SW54RkZwY1EAMA

Spieth doesn't feel quite right standing over the ball, he says, but that doesn't mean he's going to stop grinding at...

Hey! Here’s an idea....do nothing different at all! Keep your same coach you’ve had since you wore diapers, same ball flight, same clubs...just keep hitting that range with your trusted, antiquated coach and hope something just clicks! Try something totally different? Get a new perspective from another highly accomplished coach? No no....horrible idea. Why would you do that since you’ve made ZERO progress doing what you’ve been doing?  

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
10 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

trusted, antiquated coach

You still know roughly nothing about what goes on behind the scenes there.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

You still know roughly nothing about what goes on behind the scenes there.

Absolutely true. But what I do know is he’s lost, as stated by he himself. Not working.

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
1 minute ago, Vinsk said:

Absolutely true. But what I do know is he’s lost, as stated by he himself. Not working.

And you blame the instructor.

And I reject that. For all you know, Cameron could be telling him all the exact right things, and it's on Jordan entirely. Change seems good, but change could also coach him right off the Tour (after his status runs out).

You have no idea. Yet you just continue to blame Cameron, calling him "antiquated" and so on.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, iacas said:

And you blame the instructor.

And I reject that. For all you know, Cameron could be telling him all the exact right things, and it's on Jordan entirely. Change seems good, but change could also coach him right off the Tour (after his status runs out).

You have no idea. Yet you just continue to blame Cameron, calling him "antiquated" and so on.

I have no idea if Jordan will come back or not. I’m guessing not if you just look at statistics and turnover on Tour.

A good friend of mine played the Tour and has several students on the Tour today. He says all the time, “They won’t listen. It’s hard to stay focused and do the work.”

Who knows? We’re all just guessing.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator
12 minutes ago, Vespidae said:

We’re all just guessing.

Some more than others, but nobody can know the future.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

9 hours ago, Vespidae said:

I have no idea if Jordan will come back or not. I’m guessing not if you just look at statistics and turnover on Tour.

A good friend of mine played the Tour and has several students on the Tour today. He says all the time, “They won’t listen. It’s hard to stay focused and do the work.”

Who knows? We’re all just guessing.

 

 

 

Maybe his coach needs to fire him, if this is the case. When he was winning, Jordan looked so natural, at least to me, hitting the ball. He just seemed to see the shot, and hit it. He swung so hard on his opening tee shot yesterday, I thought he was going to fall. I don’t know what he and Cam are working on, but it clearly is not working. He looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders.

Edited by Sandy Divot
Link to comment
Share on other sites


11 hours ago, iacas said:

And you blame the instructor.

It’s not  so much I’m blaming Cameron. I’m simply saying he’s not the solution. And if he’s telling JS the right stuff and three years of hacking persists then Cameron should tell him to go elsewhere. Not in a feuding manner, in a caring matter. 
I think if we consider the role of a coach it’s reasonable to say Cameron isn’t filling this role effectively based on the results we’re seeing from JS. But I’d like to know what Cameron has suggested because clearly whatever they’ve worked on isn’t fixing this mess.

 

Edited by Vinsk
  • Upvote 1

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
5 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

It’s not  so much I’m blaming Cameron. I’m simply saying he’s not the solution. And if he’s telling JS the right stuff and three years of hacking persists then Cameron should tell him to go elsewhere. Not in a feuding manner, in a caring matter. 
I think if we consider the role of a coach it’s reasonable to say Cameron isn’t filling this role effectively based on the results we’re seeing from JS.

 

I’m putting this far more on JS than the coach. Students need to do the work. Cameron is not like an NFL coach who has to game plan or even like other major sport coaches. He works on a player’s specific swing to make it consistent in competition. For all we know, there is a small fault they are trying correct that is just being stubborn. Or, maybe the competition has just raised up to where JS is just average now. He is not long, so he needs to be accurate. 

I’ve had great teachers in my schooling. Not all the students got an A. Do we replace the teacher because the student didn’t put in the work?

  • Like 1

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

IMHO, when he was hot, it was his putter.  Seemed like he would make anything he looked at from 10' and beyond.  Close ones, not so much - just average.

Unless he can get that flat stick working again, I doubt he will be what he was.  

Don

:titleist: 910 D2, 8.5˚, Adila RIP 60 S-Flex
:titleist: 980F 15˚
:yonex: EZone Blades (3-PW) Dynamic Gold S-200
:vokey:   Vokey wedges, 52˚; 56˚; and 60˚
:scotty_cameron:  2014 Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
31 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

It’s not  so much I’m blaming Cameron. I’m simply saying he’s not the solution. And if he’s telling JS the right stuff and three years of hacking persists then Cameron should tell him to go elsewhere. Not in a feuding manner, in a caring matter. 
I think if we consider the role of a coach it’s reasonable to say Cameron isn’t filling this role effectively based on the results we’re seeing from JS. But I’d like to know what Cameron has suggested because clearly whatever they’ve worked on isn’t fixing this mess.

 

Well put. I’d agree with @iacas that it is unlikely a Cameron issue as he was present and obviously helpful through the good years, but I’d also agree with  you, @Vinsk, that if there is a problem (and clearly there is) that Cameron is not able to correct, whether the fault lies with Jordan or himself, as a loving friend/coach, I feel Cameron ought to suggest Jordan get a different perspective. Maybe they’ve already been down that road, I don’t know. But I see both of you as being correct...if that’s possible

18 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I’ve had great teachers in my schooling. Not all the students got an A. Do we replace the teacher because the student didn’t put in the work?

Also a great point

Edited by woodzie264

Driver: :callaway: Rogue ST  /  Woods: :tmade: Stealth 5W / Hybrid: :tmade: Stealth 25* / Irons: :ping: i500’s /  Wedges: :edel: 54*, 58*; Putter: :scotty_cameron: Futura 5  Ball: image.png Vero X1

 

 -Jonny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 766 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...