Range Vs Course, Dialing Back for Contact

[JM2334]

Hi guys,

I noticed a post from @iacas regarding what % you hit a ball at on the course.

I've had a track man set up at the range, and can confidently hit a 5iron 210-220, quite a nice draw on it, same story with driver albeit further.

When I get out on the course I feel my dispersion is huge if I try hit at the tempo I can hit with at the range, and I have alot more fat, thin mishits.

I therefore end up having to dial everything back, resulting in a 190 yd 5i. A huge loss if wanting to recover or get further down!

Does anyone else have this, and has anyone overcame it?

It seems my course confidence is quite low at the minute, yet range confidence at an all timer high - I know people usually have this but the huge gap between quality for me is shocking!!

Cheers

[Jay28]

Why not take a 4i and swing easy when you want to 'recover or get further down'?

I think it's probably good advice not to swing all out whether on the range or the course.  I suspect everyone, including tour pros, will have more difficulty striking it solid if they try to swing the club faster than they can control under pressure.

According to Trackman in 2017, the PGA Tour average carry for a 5 iron is 194 yards, so swinging easy (dialling everything back) you are almost there.

Given your handicap, do you think the best way to improve is maxing out the swing to get another 20yds from a 5iron when you are already hitting it 190yards?  Seems odd.

Just my opinion.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Jay28

[JM2334]

Hi Jay,

 

That's the strange thing, I seem to be able to do it on the range no bother. As you say, it must be to do with the added pressure!

I wasn't aware that was the tour average, thats helpful info thanks.

An issue for me is a steep swing, I don't use anything higher than my 5 although i Have a 3 and 5 wood I can't hit them off the deck it's a guaranteed OB so I'm always thinking if I could get my 215-220 range distance on the course it would be a huge help on some of the longer par 4's which our course has a lot of!

Especially if I hit a poor drive, I get in a right knot walking to the next shot as I know I can't recover from it as the next longest shot I can hit is 190-195.

I hit my handicap last game, with two quadruple bogey's and a triple and these were on 2 long par 4's and a long par 5 after a poor drive on all 3. I was 10 over the other 15 holes, I feel if I can get that part sorted my scores will drop!

Cheers

J

 

[billchao]

18 hours ago, JM2334 said:

When I get out on the course I feel my dispersion is huge if I try hit at the tempo I can hit with at the range, and I have alot more fat, thin mishits.

There are a couple of things that come to mind reading this:

Are you hitting off of a mat on the range? Having a perfect lie on the range vs varied lies on the course will affect the outcome and the mat will mask low point issues in your swing.

Are you hitting shot after shot with the same club on the range? You could be grooving in the timing from hitting the same shot over and over, which is not how golf is played on the course. Change your club and target every shot on the range so you're not just getting into a rhythm with one particular club.

[JM2334]

Hi Bill,

 

Yes it's off a mat - I must note it feels much easier and I feel much more confident hitting off one.

The low point issue makes sense actually as my main problems are a steep angle of attack, and bending the elbow at/after impact too soon (Chicken wing?) Am I right in thinking both of these are linked in with low point issues?

I'd say I hit a maximum of 10-12 shots with each club consecutively, if I try a certain shot with aclub it depends how many times it takes for me to be happy that I've hit it right before I'll move on to another.

Thanks

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by JM2334

[Zeph]

Adding to what others have said, it's always easier to hit balls on the range. There's no pressure and no consequences. Even if you had a perfect lie every time on the course, you'd hit more poor shots than on the range.

[ncates00]

Normally I would say people overestimate their abilities, but you used a trackman so I won't use that argument.  However, if you're not sensitive to strike on a mat, you'll get away with a lot that you don't on the course.  On the golf course, you don't have a mat or safe sterile environment.  You have a lot more variables to deal with.  Plus, on the range as others have stated, it's too easy to get into a groove and swing away with little care in the world.  On the course, you have time between shots and different clubs and different lies.

Nonetheless, I will chalk this up to deficiencies in your mechanics.  Also check alignment.  If you're hitting it all over the place on the course, you're probably hitting it worse than you think on the range as well.  The whole "pro on the range" but "joe on the course" thing doesn't really pan out if people practice like they play.  We overestimate our abilities and we don't write a score down when on the range; rather, we enter some ethereal realm of not caring like we should and go on "auto pilot."  Play the course on the range and write down a score, with time between shots; then, see how you do.  I can almost bet you'll hit the ball the same-aka, not as good as your 215 y 5i's you claim nor with the frequency you claim.  Note, I'm not doubting your ability, I don't care about your ability or length, just providing some insight to help you, as I suspect if you feel the need to dial back that much on the course to hit it straight, you're not hitting it as good as you think you do. 

Check strike and the numbers on your trackman.  Figure out why you're messing up, fix it, and go do it on the course.  It's that simple.  I don't have a trackman, but I do have a gc2, and I get pretty much the same results on course as I do on the sim; if anything, I'll hit the ball a tad further on course due to adrenaline, but the gc2 has been a huge help to my game in terms of using data to drive feelings.  However, with a sim you get perfectly aligned every time whereas on the course you have to aim yourself, so watch out for that.

[JM2334]

It's a weird one, I've had a few lessons and they've improved me greatly.... In the bay!

He used SkyTrak and I achieve 195-200 with my 6 iron and I don't feel like I'm trying too agressively, just swinging with good confidence and can really get at it. Same with drives, around 280 average.

Yet get on the course and it goes to pot!! He's around £220 for an on course lesson so it's a huge payout, but I feel I may need to do that with him just to see what I'm doing different with the swing out there compared to in the bay and on the range.

With regards to checking strike on Trackman and SkyTrak, the pro says the way I strike it according to the SkyTrak is standard of a 10-12 handicapper for all my clubs. My course game seems to vastly disagree with him!!

I like the idea of playing a course in my head on the range and see how many over I end up through a few holes to compare, thanks.

[Shindig]

43 minutes ago, JM2334 said:

It's a weird one, I've had a few lessons and they've improved me greatly.... In the bay!

He used SkyTrak and I achieve 195-200 with my 6 iron and I don't feel like I'm trying too agressively, just swinging with good confidence and can really get at it. Same with drives, around 280 average.

Yet get on the course and it goes to pot!! He's around £220 for an on course lesson so it's a huge payout, but I feel I may need to do that with him just to see what I'm doing different with the swing out there compared to in the bay and on the range.

With regards to checking strike on Trackman and SkyTrak, the pro says the way I strike it according to the SkyTrak is standard of a 10-12 handicapper for all my clubs. My course game seems to vastly disagree with him!!

I like the idea of playing a course in my head on the range and see how many over I end up through a few holes to compare, thanks.

I have a question:  what sorts of decisions are you making on the course?  

I can hit a bunch of great 6-irons on the range, same as you (not as far though).  And if there's a flag on the range at my 6-iron distance, I can hit a few shots that cover it or that land near it or that finish near it.

One thing that really improved my scores, though, was that I stopped trying to do that on the course.  Sure, sometimes I get lucky and there's a pin in the middle of the green at my 6-iron distance and I'll hit a good shot at just that time, too.  But if it's my 6-iron distance, front of the green, just over a bunker, I'm probably hitting a 5-iron approach.  Full.  

Check out this thread.  I encourage you to read the whole thing, not just the title -- and as you read the thread, you'll see how many people don't read beyond the title before reacting.  This simple change probably dropped more strokes off my score than any single lesson I've had since first breaking 110. 

Oh and reading that thread is free, despite what may have sounded like a sales pitch  

[Cantankerish]

I feel that when I get a "freebie" off a mat because the head of the club sorta bounces off the surface and I escape a fat hit, I can feel it.  Is it not that way for everyone?  I feel that I do not get a false sense of ability because of this indication.  Is it not this way for us all?

[hoselpalooza]

1 hour ago, Cantankerish said:

I feel that when I get a "freebie" off a mat because the head of the club sorta bounces off the surface and I escape a fat hit, I can feel it.  Is it not that way for everyone?  I feel that I do not get a false sense of ability because of this indication.  Is it not this way for us all?

obviously fat hits are clearly "thump-click" but if you swing fast it's not always easy to tell on the close ones. placing a thin strip of duct tape behind your ball is a good way to keep it honest imho.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Cantankerish said:

I feel that when I get a "freebie" off a mat because the head of the club sorta bounces off the surface and I escape a fat hit, I can feel it.  Is it not that way for everyone?  I feel that I do not get a false sense of ability because of this indication.  Is it not this way for us all?

Good players (and many poorer players) can tell when they hit the ball fat off a mat even if the resulting ball flight is "okay."

[pganapathy]

I am guessing the reason you are able to hit a ball well on the range is because you are hitting at least 5 to 10 balls consecutively with the same club.  By the time you have hit the 5th shot your swing is grooved for that club.  On the course you rarely hit the same club twice in a row, with the possible exception of the putter.

Try a drill where you hit a different club for every shot on the range and see if you are still able to achieve the same results of distance and accuracy.  Once you get that right, it should translate a lot better onto the course.

[JM2334]

@Shindig I think I probably go for the flag more than I do the green. That article is a great read, and although in my machismo mind I still want to go at flags and think it will help I think I'll put faith in the people who know more than me and give the centre of the green from 60 yds out philosophy a go next few times out!

@pganapathy I think this is part of it, however the vast gap between my range and course quality has even been noticed by playing partners who've been tipping me to win the weekly comp beforehand at the range as we have little competitions on range to warm up beforehand only to watch me notch a 100-105 score and go to bits.

I'm wondering if it's something mental which is affecting it

[pganapathy]

59 minutes ago, JM2334 said:

I think this is part of it, however the vast gap between my range and course quality has even been noticed by playing partners

I'm wondering if it's something mental which is affecting it

I reckon if you hit a different club every shot, it might help.  Also, I am wondering if your range has a mat or you are hitting off grass.  The one other thing to note in range play is you always get a level lie.  On course it is rarely that.  Try and hit shots with the ball above and below your feet on the range.  All situations that you encounter on the course try to replicate on the range

[Shindig]

2 hours ago, JM2334 said:

@Shindig I think I probably go for the flag more than I do the green. That article is a great read, and although in my machismo mind I still want to go at flags and think it will help I think I'll put faith in the people who know more than me and give the centre of the green from 60 yds out philosophy a go next few times out!

Yep.  As indicated in that thread, this is really hard to do, even when you have it in mind.  You're at your perfect PW number to the flag, middle of the fairway, but that flag is on the left of the green.  But this is the perfect distance!  Oh no, I pulled it a little, now I'm short-sided in the bunker.  

On one hand, you end up with fewer tap-in birdies going for the safe part of the green (not necessarily the middle, although the middle is often safe) in situations where the pin isn't there, but you also end up with fewer big numbers.  And sometimes you mishit the shot aimed at the safe part of the green and end up next to the pin by accident.  I almost had a hole-in-one doing that a year or so ago!

[saevel25]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

Good players (and many poorer players) can tell when they hit the ball fat off a mat even if the resulting ball flight is "okay." 

I agree with this. There is a distinct feeling when the club glides off the mat.

2 hours ago, JM2334 said:

I'm wondering if it's something mental which is affecting it

Being you are a 21.9 handicap, its probably more your golf swing.

Yes, a golfer can get into a groove on the range hitting ball after ball.

The best sort of practice is focusing on priority pieces and doing slow specific drills. If you want to practice more on the course stuff then do some atypical stuff.

Place an alignment stick in the ground about 10 yards in front of you and try to hit shots around it. Maybe try to hit a ball to one target, switch clubs and go to the next. Maybe hit a shot with a different club instead of the same one. Try to hit different shot shapes. Take breaks between shots.

 

[JM2334]

Sounds good, thanks for all the advice guys. Looking forward to trying the centre of the green approach.

 

@saevel25

I’m sorry I wasn’t very clear there,

i definitely think it’s something physical with my swing when I’m on the course I’m just wondering what’s mentally making me change it from on the range, frustrating!