Breaking Bad

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by dsc123

But why does he associate that with Brock, and them to walter? I know Jessie thought Brock got a hold of the ricin, but the doctor told him it wasn't ricin. And then Jessie found the ricin in the roomba, albeit with Walters help. Shouldn't that have severed any connection between the ricin and Brock in Jessie s mind?

Not necessarily, if you take into account how much he'd been questioning Walt's motives and actions recently. Especially with the disappearance of Mike.

[butt3r3dt0ast]

Originally Posted by dsc123

But why does he associate that with Brock, and them to walter? I know Jessie thought Brock got a hold of the ricin, but the doctor told him it wasn't ricin. And then Jessie found the ricin in the roomba, albeit with Walters help. Shouldn't that have severed any connection between the ricin and Brock in Jessie s mind?

That was an issue for me at first also. But then I realized, throughout the last couple episodes, Jesse has begun to realize that Walt has lied to him about almost everything in their working relationship and that he has no problem using Jesse to further his own agenda. He has realized that Huell lifted the cig and then Walt lied to Jesse, making him think that he lost it. That lie was in conjunction with Walt trying to convince Jesse that Gus poisoned Brock (trying to get Gus killed). Jesse has now realized that Walt was just straight up lying about the whole thing and that he was behind it all, trying to get his way.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by dsc123

But why does he associate that with Brock, and them to walter? I know Jessie thought Brock got a hold of the ricin, but the doctor told him it wasn't ricin. And then Jessie found the ricin in the roomba, albeit with Walters help. Shouldn't that have severed any connection between the ricin and Brock in Jessie s mind?

No, Jesse probably dismisses the ricin they found. He doesn't believe a word that comes out of Walt's mouth, or that has ever come out of Walt's mouth. He finally realizes that Walt doesn't care about anything or anyone but himself, and he'll protect himself at all costs. Earlier, he accused Walt of poisoning Brock, and this was just what he needed to convince himself that he was right.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by dsc123

But why does he associate that with Brock, and them to walter? I know Jessie thought Brock got a hold of the ricin, but the doctor told him it wasn't ricin. And then Jessie found the ricin in the roomba, albeit with Walters help. Shouldn't that have severed any connection between the ricin and Brock in Jessie s mind?

Totally agree.  I understand that his first instinct has always been right with Walt, only to allow Walt to convince him otherwise.  (especially in regards to Brock and Mike)  But that was a hell of a lot of connecting-the-dots in a matter of seconds with way too much speculation.  He should spend a lot more time confused and trying to figure out how in the world he found the ricin in his vacuum if Huell took it AND confused as to what that had to do with Brock since he wasn't poisoned with Ricin anyway.  He would still be able to figure it out, I'm sure ... but not in 3 seconds.**

The other thing that struck me as amusing was how adamant that Saul was about "once I make this call there is no going back!", yet Jesse simply started to walk away from the car and the car simply drove away.  Apparently, there is going back? :)

**Of course, in all of the interviews prior to this season, everybody warned that this was going to be a very fast paced season and ALL loose ends were going to be tied up, and we weren't going to be able to take a breath.  This is probably a good example of that. ;)

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

The other thing that struck me as amusing was how adamant that Saul was about "once I make this call there is no going back!", yet Jesse simply started to walk away from the car and the car simply drove away.  Apparently, there is going back? :)

Didn't that happen with Walt, too?  When Skyler gave their money to her other sugar-daddy.  The disappearance guy is starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Earlier, he accused Walt of poisoning Brock, and this was just what he needed to convince himself that he was right.

Right!  I was trying to remember exactly what happened but I thought I remembered Jessie figuring this out earlier.  I remember because I thought the same thing then.  Even accepting that he suspected Walt of using the ricin to get Jessie to think it was Gus, Walt could have gotten the ricin cig in any number of ways (such as from the lab locker) but Jessie seemed to put together that Huell took it from him.  That didn't make any sense to me because there was no reason to suspect that Huell/Saul were in on it.  At the time I thought it seemed an unnecessary stretch of logic--why not just have him get it some easier way?  Now we know why.  They wanted to connect it to this.

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

Especially with the disappearance of Mike.

This is another one I don't totally get.  Wasn't Mike trying to disappear?  Didn't he pay Saul's guy?  I guess Jessie is just knows that Walt doesn't like Mike and doesn't trust Walt.  But still, the guy was trying to disappear, isn't not hearing from him sort of expected?

[Beachcomber]

I'm a huge BB fan, but the over-reaching connections that JP has been able to make back to WW just seems like poor execution on behalf of the writers of the show. I like SG, he is a great character. But I think they could've left him and Heuell out of the ricin cig connection. And written something that would've been more likely to tie together. Heuell being able to pick a ricin cig out of a pack of cigs, in a matter of seconds, is lazy in itself. Without all the other twist and turns they have taken the viewers down. That alone is an issue.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I'm a huge BB fan, but the over-reaching connections that JP has been able to make back to WW just seems like poor execution on behalf of the writers of the show. I like SG, he is a great character. But I think they could've left him and Heuell out of the ricin cig connection. And written something that would've been more likely to tie together.

Heuell being able to pick a ricin cig out of a pack of cigs, in a matter of seconds, is lazy in itself. Without all the other twist and turns they have taken the viewers down. That alone is an issue.

It's strange that several people so far have had a problem with the way Jesse was able to make the links. I noticed that he is much more intelligent than he seems and I had no problem with him making the rapid associations based on the common occurrence of something coming up missing twice while in the presence of Heull and Saul. Also it's been very obvious that he's been questioning the honesty, intent, and sincerity of Walter for awhile now.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by dsc123

Didn't that happen with Walt, too? When Skyler gave their money to her other sugar-daddy. The disappearance guy is starting to sound like the boy who cried wolf.

No, not exactly.  Walt went to Saul, Saul gave him the same schpiel he Jesse, and then told Walt that he had to pay in cash and had to pay up front, so he sent him to get the money and was going to make the call when Walt got back with the money ... which, obviously, thanks to Skyler, never happened. ;)

Although, I do wonder about this guy.  All Saul says is that you pay him a bunch of money and he makes you disappear.  Who's to say that the guy just doesn't take you out in the desert, kill you, and then make off with a very easy 500k?

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

It's strange that several people so far have had a problem with the way Jesse was able to make the links. I noticed that he is much more intelligent than he seems and I had no problem with him making the rapid associations based on the common occurrence of something coming up missing twice while in the presence of Heull and Saul. Also it's been very obvious that he's been questioning the honesty, intent, and sincerity of Walter for awhile now.

I don't have a problem with him making the connections, but he did it almost instantaneously.  For somebody who has so much on their mind already, that seems a bit far-fetched.

Don't get me wrong .. it doesn't bother me, I just find it interesting.

[JetFan1983]

Jesse didn't necessarily make his realization instantaneously. First, within the context of the story, this is the real lives of these characters. It would be easier for Jesse to make this connection than it would for the entire Breaking Bad audience, who likely doesn't watch the show so closely that they too would make the same connection. Second, even though the show has been produced over six years, the story itself (besides the flash forwards and flash backs) takes place within the space of one year. Brock's poisoning and Jesse's realization likely took place only a matter of 3-4 months apart, making recall easier for Jesse than the viewer.

And lastly, my strongest argument here is this: It was Jesse's first instinct all along that Saul had Huel lift the cigarette from him.

Episode 4.12 "End Times" (air date: Oct.2nd, 2011):

Jesse confronts Walt in his house and puts a gun to his head. Quoted from their heated conversation in that scene:

Quote:

"You had Saul do it. Yea... Yea...I went to his office. He called me in and just had to see me today. His big man mountain of a body guard patted me down, that's when he must've stolen it off me, right? Was that the plan?? Was that the plan?!?!?!?

That moment of the weed being lifted by Huel was just confirmation to what Jesse suspected all along, and the mounting evidence over season 5A and 5B against Walt being a conniving, untrustworthy sociopath only fueled those flames of suspicion even more in Jesse's mind. It was the moment Jesse finally came to terms with the reality that Walter White is one of the sickest, most evil, two faced bastards he has ever known.

It's more than plausible for Jesse to make that realization.

[nevets88]

Here's a detailed description from reddit on the Jesse - ricin association:

http://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad/comments/1l3exa/spoilers_a_full_backstory_and_timeline_to_the/

Watched this show countless times. Tonight's episode was so ****ing perfect. Ignore the context placers if you don't need 'em. And skip what you don't need to read, but this is a full backstory ... here's what happened:

Season 4

Walt needs Jesse on his side to get to Gus

Context: If you recall, Jesse is the one who tells Walt that Gus seems to have a big hatred for Hector "Tio" Salamanca, then Walt figured out how to plant the bomb on Tio, Gus died... etc etc

So Walt forms a scheme to get Jesse to distrust Gus.

Walt tells Saul to somehow extract the cigarette from Jesse. Thus Saul has Huell lift the ricin cigarette from Jesse's pocket (most likely by simply trading out the packs, dummy pack for the real one with the ricin).

Context: Originally Jesse was somewhat distrustful of Gus, Walt had hatched an earlier plan to have Jesse kill Gus with the ricin. But Jesse was befriended by Gus, and he eventually came to like the guy. Also, if you remember, Saul is frantic to get Jesse to his office, calling him over and over again. It was to get him in the office to get the cigarette off him.

Jesse now has a dummy pack of cigarettes. With this in mind, Walt now makes the moves to make Jesse distrust Gus. Walt takes his "Lilly of the Valley" extract and gives it to Jesse's girlfriend's young son Brock.

Context: Vince Gilligan, the show's creator, has stated several times that the writers have imagined Walt's delivery system as perhaps a doctored juice box or something of the like. Sneaking into Brock's school to place it in his lunch or even hand it to him would've been fairly rudimentary for a teacher.

"Lilly of the Valley" gives pneumonia-like symptoms that appear very severe (the same symptoms that ricin gives when killing someone). So Jesse thought that Brock was poisoned by the ricin. Jesse frantically searches in his cigarette pack only to find, ah! It's not there! (Huell took it!)

Jesse bursts into Walt's home, gun in hand demanding Walt to admit that he poisoned Brock with the now missing ricin. Important to note: Jesse says that Huell must have took it when he went to meet Saul. Jesse is no idiot, he was 100% right on his instincts. Walt claims ignorance, saying he has no reason to do so and he has no idea what Jesse is talking about (lying obviously). Through Walt's machinations, he convinces Jesse that it must have been Gus, who has hurt children before (Andrea's brother who shot Combo was killed by some of Gus' lower order thugs).

Jesse now doles out the details of Gus' hatred for Hector "Tio" Salamanca leading to Gus' eventual death via Walt's admittedly ingenious scheme.

At the end of season 4, the doctors at the hospital tell Jesse that Brock was not poisoned with ricin, but had consumed "Lilly of the Valley" berries in some shape or fashion. Jesse, taken aback, rationalizes with Walt that even though Gus didn't do it, he "had to go," although he is clearly still rattled.

Season 5A

Walt and Jesse go on a hunt for the missing ricin cigarette (although Walt knows exactly where it's at, and we're even shown Saul throwing the ricin cigarette back to Walt in a plastic bag, making a crack about Huell's "nimble sausage fingers"). Walt is just making a facade to make Jesse think the cigarette was simply misplaced. They "find" the ricin cigarette in Jesse's electronic vacuum (although it was Walt who placed it there).

Jesse breaks down in tears, realizing he almost killed Walt over this (as aforementioned when Jesse confronted him in season 4, saying he was the one who took the cigarette and poisoned Brock). Although in reality, the bastard did deserve it.

Season 5B

This episode! Jesse is ready to move on with his life, move to Alaska, and just leave ABQ. Saul tells Jesse he can't bring pot to the meet with his "guy." The guy won't be inclined to help a druggie disappear (sensible). Jesse defiantly and silently refuses to give up his stash. Saul leaves the room to get "money bags" and while he is out there he tells Huell to pinch Jesse's stash off him (rewatch the scene, you can actually see him snatch it from Jesse!).

Jesse is waiting at the stop, he searches his pockets, at first just simply realizing the pot isn't there. But he looks at his pack of cigarettes and realizes, holy shit, Huell took my pot just now... and they took the ricin just as I had originally thought. Walt has been bullshitting me ever since.

And that's where we're at! That's about as thorough as I can get off the top of my head.

[Golfingdad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Jesse didn't necessarily make his realization instantaneously. First, within the context of the story, this is the real lives of these characters. It would be easier for Jesse to make this connection than it would for the entire Breaking Bad audience, who likely doesn't watch the show so closely that they too would make the same connection. Second, even though the show has been produced over six years, the story itself (besides the flash forwards and flash backs) takes place within the space of one year. Brock's poisoning and Jesse's realization likely took place only a matter of 3-4 months apart, making recall easier for Jesse than the viewer.

And lastly, my strongest argument here is this: It was Jesse's first instinct all along that Saul had Huel lift the cigarette from him.

Episode 4.12 "End Times" (air date: Oct.2nd, 2011):

Jesse confronts Walt in his house and puts a gun to his head. Quoted from their heated conversation in that scene:

Quote:

"You had Saul do it. Yea... Yea...I went to his office. He called me in and just had to see me today. His big man mountain of a body guard patted me down, that's when he must've stolen it off me, right? Was that the plan?? Was that the plan?!?!?!?

That moment of the weed being lifted by Huel was just confirmation to what Jesse suspected all along, and the mounting evidence over season 5A and 5B against Walt being a conniving, untrustworthy sociopath only fueled those flames of suspicion even more in Jesse's mind. It was the moment Jesse finally came to terms with the reality that Walter White is one of the sickest, most evil, two faced bastards he has ever known.

It's more than plausible for Jesse to make that realization.

Ummm ... oh yeah.

OK, I had just re-watched everything.  I totally remember Jesse's first instinct always being correct (Brock and Mike), and I remember him coming to kill Walt.  I DID NOT remember that he was so specific in his accusation.  But you guys are totally right.

But, just to nit-pick and be correct about something ;), as far as the time frame goes, it's more than a year.  The first episode is his 50th birthday, and 5a/4 "51" (duh) is his 51st.  They had just started their pest control meth business at that point and Walt was basically broke when they did.  It had to take at least a little while to rack up that storage unit pile of money from that point (a couple of months at least, maybe??).  Then, I think, right after the scene where Skyler shows Walt the pile and he has the realization that he can quit, they jump forward a couple of months to Hank's dump.  It seems like it comes up during Walt's conversation with Lydia in 5b/1 that it's been a few months since he retired.  Based on all of that, I would estimate that at this point, it's been something like 16-18 months total.

;)

By the way, how much do you guys think was in that pile?  I estimated just over 100 million.  (Less now that Huell and Bill Burr took a few stacks out of it ;))

[nevets88]

I read somewhere estimates between 30-40 million. But some estimates were more... up to 250m.

http://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad/comments/z9kp7/some_math_on_how_much_money_is_in_that_pile/

http://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad/comments/zasrc/my_calculation_of_how_much_money_is_in_walts/

http://www.quora.com/Breaking-Bad-Season-5-Part-1-2012/What-is-a-good-approximation-of-how-much-money-Skyler-had-in-the-storage-unit-when-she-showed-Walt-how-she-stopped-counting-it

Tax free. Ha ha.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by nevets88

I read somewhere estimates between 30-40 million. But some estimates were more... up to 250m.

http://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad/comments/z9kp7/some_math_on_how_much_money_is_in_that_pile/

http://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad/comments/zasrc/my_calculation_of_how_much_money_is_in_walts/

http://www.quora.com/Breaking-Bad-Season-5-Part-1-2012/What-is-a-good-approximation-of-how-much-money-Skyler-had-in-the-storage-unit-when-she-showed-Walt-how-she-stopped-counting-it

Tax free. Ha ha.

Without cheating and looking at those links, let me just tell you what I did.  I estimated the pile to be about 6' by 6' by 3' high.  I measured a dollar bill (6.1" x 2.6"), then estimated the bundles as being approximately 3/4" thick.  Each bundle is 10k if it's 100's, 5k if it's 50's and 2k if it's 20's, and they had a lot of each.  For fun, assume that they had a little more 10k and a little less 2k bundles, so just call it 7k per.

So, the pile is 186,624 cubic inches and one bundle is 11.89 cubic inches.  Simple division yields a total of 15,690 bundles ... at 7k a piece, that gives a total of just under 110 million.

P.S.  I'm a nerd. ;)

EDIT:  Ha!  I did it almost exactly the same as the guy in the first link, except he actually determined the thickness of one bill, lol.  Damn, what a dork! ;)

[jamo]

With regards to the Jesse thing: I agree that it's a stretch, but keep in mind that this all happened just a few months ago in Breaking Bad-land. Also, Jesse has been messed up for a while now, and that tailspin really started with Brock being poisoned. It's obviously on his mind.

[butt3r3dt0ast]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Without cheating and looking at those links, let me just tell you what I did.  I estimated the pile to be about 6' by 6' by 3' high.  I measured a dollar bill (6.1" x 2.6"), then estimated the bundles as being approximately 3/4" thick.  Each bundle is 10k if it's 100's, 5k if it's 50's and 2k if it's 20's, and they had a lot of each.  For fun, assume that they had a little more 10k and a little less 2k bundles, so just call it 7k per.

So, the pile is 186,624 cubic inches and one bundle is 11.89 cubic inches.  Simple division yields a total of 15,690 bundles ... at 7k a piece, that gives a total of just under 110 million.

P.S.  I'm a nerd. ;)

EDIT:  Ha!  I did it almost exactly the same as the guy in the first link, except he actually determined the thickness of one bill, lol.  Damn, what a dork! ;)

Haha, wow.... After you posted the initial question about how much we estimated, I actually used the same method and the same dimensions! I valued the stacks at 8k, so my estimate was a little higher than yours, but I was taken aback when I scrolled down to see your next post!

[nevets88]

According to sources, real money pit on the right is ~200 million.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by nevets88

According to sources, real money pit on the right is ~200 million.

Good find.

So what would you say then, a little less than half?  Maybe $80M?

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by nevets88

According to sources, real money pit on the right is ~200 million.

That's amazing.  Do you know the backstory behind the real pile?

Originally Posted by dsc123

Good find.

So what would you say then, a little less than half?  Maybe $80M?

It's really hard to say because you have no idea what denominations those bills are.  Those piles don't look that much different in size.  If Walt's stack was all 100's, he would be at 156m by my estimations. ;)

Also, what is in those piles in the front?  Euros?  Pesos?  Ammo?  Condoms?  ;)