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krupa

Adam Scott: Long Means Nothing to Us

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27 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Other than him saying that very thing? You’re wasting my time kid.

I'm probably older than you, but in any case, you're welcome to direct me to an actual quotation.

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"Nobody wants their records broken," added Nicklaus. "I don't want him to break my records, but I don't want him not to be able to play and not be physically sound to play. I mean, if he's physically sound and it's his desire to win and he breaks it, you know, well done. That's what it should be. That's what sports is all about. And he's done a great job."

 

This is the relevant part - fair enough :-)

 

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Firmer greens and fairways, less rough around the greens and more tight lies and run off areas, awkward stances from rough on approach shots, more holes where you have to hit tee shots to fairways from angles, better use of water hazards and OB (smaller targets with large rewards of these features are used), fewer bunkers, but deeper more penal bunkers, more centerline hazards.

These are all features (not an all inclusive list) that I would like to see more of in American golf course architecture that would challenge the pros in more ways than just “let’s make it longer”. 

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3 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Right. All over the world we’re all just smashing those drives down the middle. The slice is all but gone.😏 And as for the pros..gosh he’s right, I can’t remember the last time a pro hit a driver OB or off the fairway...come on.

"Aren't penalized AS MUCH for missing the sweet spot."

I'm not sure how you could possibly be arguing with that statement. Again, I don't think it's a bad thing, but the modern driver is quite a bit better in terms of forgiveness and overall distance than what ever Jack had in his bag back in the 70's. 

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5 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Evey pool table is exactly the same

That's not true, actually.  Pockets are cut differently (different sizes and face angles), rails play differently based on how tight the cloth is and how worn it is, and cloth plays differently as well.  And that kind of proves my point: it takes a die-hard pool fan to know the nuances enough to appreciate what they're watching.  When it's only the die-hards watching it, you're probably not going to see as much of it.

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1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I'm not sure how you could possibly be arguing with that statement.

Because it’s a vague statement that gets said over and over without any hard data to show it. The pros are hitting the ball farther than ever for sure. I just don’t buy that the ‘forgiveness’ is monumental. They’re better than the players of old. Period. I contribute a very small percentage of that to equipment. There are still many, many players on tour who aren’t considered ‘long hitters’ despite having access to this amazing equipment. Nor are these guys nailing the fairways like they were a country mile wide. That’s all I’m saying. 

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Wow! Some of the posts here make me think that some of you must have been big fans of the "Bob Hope Desert Classic" back in the day. You know, the tourney where everybody went low, and you had to shoot like -32 to win! Golf is supposed to be hard! No matter who plays it. 

And Vinsk, there were many players on Tour in the old days who weren't considered "long hitters" despite having access to the same equipment that the long hitters did! It's all about the swing and the talent to perform it. And Nicklaus, Palmer, and all the other old timers tried to place their tee shots on one side of the fairway or the other to give themselves the best approach shot to the green. And they tried to place their approach in a particular place on the green. That part of the game hasn't changed. 

What has change is that approach shots can now be made with 2-3 clubs less in length, thus making the game easier. 

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1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

What has change is that approach shots can now be made with 2-3 clubs less in length, thus making the game easier. 

I think given enough time you could take the top big hitters on tour, give them old clubs and they’d still be making mockeries of these courses. They’re not that much better than early days because of equipment. They’re just that much better.

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11 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Because it’s a vague statement that gets said over and over without any hard data to show it. The pros are hitting the ball farther than ever for sure. I just don’t buy that the ‘forgiveness’ is monumental. They’re better than the players of old. Period. I contribute a very small percentage of that to equipment. There are still many, many players on tour who aren’t considered ‘long hitters’ despite having access to this amazing equipment. Nor are these guys nailing the fairways like they were a country mile wide. That’s all I’m saying. 

Maybe you aren't understanding what Snedecker and I are both saying. We are NOT saying the players today aren't great. We are NOT saying that the players today wouldn't break scoring records with the same equipment they used back in Jack's heyday. We are NOT saying that a golf tournament today doesn't have the best field top to bottom of golfers ever assembled. Snedecker is saying is that modern drivers allow him to swing harder, faster, go all out, what ever term you want to call it, because he doesn't have to fear missing the sweet spot as much as he did with the equipment made in back in the 80's. 

There is TONS of hard data to show the modern driver goes further than a persimmon driver. Not only that but it goes WAY farther on off center hits. Thus, it's more forgiving. There's tons of data on that. Hell, the driver I currently play I can hit 220 yards off places on the face where my old persimmon driver doesn't even have places. 

Not a vague statement.

- Modern drivers on average hit the ball further than those built from persimmon.

- Modern drivers on average hit the ball further on off centered hits than those built in the 80's.

Neither statement is vague. 

I agree with you, players today are better than they were back in the 80's. True of nearly every sport. Players are getting better as time goes on. Would the Steelers team that won the superbowl in 1980 be able to play with The Steelers that won the superbowl in 2009? God no, the athletes of today are bigger, stronger, faster, and have a crapload of sports science on their side. But, their equipment is better and more consistently manufactured as well. 

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What is quite humorous is that there are sports that are trying to find ways to be more offensive so it will be more exciting for the fans.

Who cares if course records are broken or it looks too easy.  It makes it more interesting if players have potential birdie (eagle) opportunities on the last few holes and are pushing the leader.  While there are some, most of the historical highlights of the game are not making par.

John

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On 8/19/2019 at 3:09 PM, krupa said:

Maybe, maybe not.  I think about professional pool.  For the general public, it's pretty boring to watch because every shot is so "easy".  People don't understand what goes into pocketing a ball and getting perfect shape on the next one.  So watching golf, when everyone is putting the ball in the middle of the fairway, then just hitting a wedge onto the green, and shooting at the pin, will eventually get boring to watch. 

I agree with the pool analogy. Something more boring than watching professional pool is playing with an exceptional player. I have a friend and colleague who regularly wins or places very highly in club competitions. Honestly, much as I like him, playing pool with him is dull. I miss a shot, he's in among the balls, and it's all over. I may as well concede when I miss. Clearances off the break are not uncommon for him, either. I'm on the point of asking if I can take a couple of balls off the table after I break. I appreciate his incredible skill, watching it, though, would soon become boring.

Returning to golf: the British Open was the most entertaining major this year. People like to watch a challenge, and bad weather and that course seemed to provide that, more than adequately. More so than a closest-to-the-pin contest in the sunshine.

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