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Sclaffer

New old irons longer

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I have been using Ping eye 2 irons for a couple of years. They are black dot, have regular steel shafts and D3 swing weight. I am 62 years old and play off 12. I recently picked up a set of Ping G5 irons, also black dot, with TFC100 regular graphite shafts in C7 swing weight and a set of Ping ISI K irons, orange dot, with regular (so I was told) steel shafts in C9 swing weight.

I was pleasantly surprised to hit the G5s noticeably further than my eye 2s. Eye2, 5 iron: 145 metres. G5, 5 iron: 152 metres. I can see why this might be: the lighter graphite shaft, the lower swing weight, the 1.5 degree stronger loft and oddly the shafts are 1/4 inch longer.

But I am curious (and very pleased) that I hit the ISI K 5 iron further still: 160 metres. The loft and shaft length are the same as the G5. I cannot see how the dot colour is relevant to distance, so the only difference that I can see, or feel, is the ISI K have a more offset and the grips are about 1.5mm thicker and are a bit softer and stickier.

Maybe my ISI shafts are not regular? Only 1 still has a band: black with red rings and it says Ping JZ. 

Any suggestions?

Thanks

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I am still keen for advice on why I am hitting a recently acquired scabby old set of Ping ISI Ks so much further than my other irons. 

Can it really just be the shaft?

And, if so, what specification is a Ping JZ shaft (black band with 2 thin red rings)?

Thanks

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JZ (Regular & Stiff): Weight: 109.8g ®, 115.1g (S) Torque: 1.9 ® 1.7 (S) Description: A mid weight steel shaft that plays a little softer than the Z-Z65 and ZZ-Lite.

The shaft of a club can certainly have a large effect on your ball striking. However, was this difference you saw from one outing? Were you using a monitor? I’m asking because it’s necessary to know if you simply were hitting the isi irons better ( sweet spot). It’s also good to know what your swing speeds are for each club which certainly could be attributed to the shafts.

The color code could certainly be an issue for you if you consistently hit one iron better because the lie angle fitted your swing better.

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Two options or a combination of the two.

First option- you hit the heavier shaft better. It fits your swing and allows for better tempo and timing thus better contact. Also Pings are always light on the SW scale. C7 is really light and could easily lead to inconsistency.

Second option- Lie angle could have some influence but most likely it is small at best and would be more directional than contact influencing. 

Simple way to check some of this is get some impact stickers, foot spray, masking tape, etc, and see where you are making contact on the face of each. My guess is you will see a much more consistent pattern with the steel shaft ISI, and more all over the face with the G5.

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Thanks Vinsk and Adam C - comments are much appreciated.

I am in South Africa. There is only 1 (indoor) launch monitor that I know of in town. My driving range also sells second hand clubs and, despite being satisfied with my Eye 2 irons, I cannot resist trying different budget sets. I am not prepared to spend R10'000 on a 1 or 2 year old set. 

The first thing I noticed when trying the mid iron G5 and ISI K was that they were clearly past the distance marker that my eye 2 irons were barely reaching.

Regarding lie: the Ping chart suggests the orange side of red dot for me. I have had black, red and orange dot irons and never really noticed much difference; directional or otherwise.

Regarding shafts: I had a set of S58 red dot with regular TFC100 shafts but struggled with consistency. I had a set of Becu Eye 2+ black dot. I think they had KT shafts which I found very hard - like a solid fence post. I also had a set with Ping ZZ lite shafts and hated them. I had a set of eye 2 black dot with Dynamic Gold S300 shafts and the ball flew well if I caught it just right, but they felt a bit hard and I often faded or topped them. The Ping shaft flex chart attached suggests I am on the border between stiff and regular. This got me thinking I needed regular shafts. My current eye 2 irons have Dynamic Gold S300 shafts soft stepped twice and I thought I was hitting them reasonably well - until I tried these G5 and ISI K irons. The G5 with graphite shafts is noticably softer on my old hands and does fly a bit higher (have yet to decide how that helps approaching greens). The ISI K irons have a nice feel - not too stiff. Its a pity they are so ugly!

I think I am on the verge of discovering which shafts suit me. Can anyone confirm the flex of the JZ shaft with the 2 thin red stripes? I am afraid they are too faded to make out any flex letter.

Ping shaft flex chart.pdf

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I need irons that are 2 to 3 degrees more upright than most manufacturers standard lies.  In my case, swinging a club that is too flat definitely results in distance loss because of bad contact.  As someone else said, the shaft can play a big role in how far you hit the club and, although it may be counter-intuitive, a lighter shaft does not always result in a faster swing.

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On 9/7/2019 at 4:48 AM, Sclaffer said:

Can anyone confirm the flex of the JZ shaft with the 2 thin red stripes?

There’s a rumor ( can’t confirm) that Red= Stiff and Blue= Regular. Have you meticulously looked at every shaft to see if you can find an ‘R’ or an ‘S’ ? If you call ping and give the serial number they can tell you the original set make up including flex.😃

Edited by Vinsk

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On 9/3/2019 at 9:43 AM, Adam C said:

 

Second option- Lie angle could have some influence but most likely it is small at best and would be more directional than contact influencing. 

 

Good points, but don't discount lie angle too much! As I understand it , the dot color on Ping irons is all about the lie angle. I once read a story where John Daly was being fitted for a new set of clubs at the club company's headquarters. He had worked his way down to the short irons (8,9,PW, GW), and after hitting some balls with them asked the fitter to have them bent 1/2 degree flat! 

Daly sat back to enjoy a diet Coke and a heater and when the fitter came back, he hit more balls. He was smiling big because the irons were perfect. He said to a reporter, "Most amateurs don't realize how much a little change in lie angle can help their game!"

And isn't "direction" kind of what golf is all about?

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Following the suggestion, I asked Ping and they promptly replied to say my ISI K are JZ stiff shafts with cushin shaft insert. They confirmed the irons in the set and say they were white dot (3 degrees upright). The dots are now orange (2 degrees flat). This raises a couple more questions:

1. How do I tell if the shafts still have the cushin inserts?

2. Is there a way to use a protractor to measure if the clubs are white or orange lie?

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On 9/8/2019 at 7:34 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

Good points, but don't discount lie angle too much! As I understand it , the dot color on Ping irons is all about the lie angle. I once read a story where John Daly was being fitted for a new set of clubs at the club company's headquarters. He had worked his way down to the short irons (8,9,PW, GW), and after hitting some balls with them asked the fitter to have them bent 1/2 degree flat! 

Daly sat back to enjoy a diet Coke and a heater and when the fitter came back, he hit more balls. He was smiling big because the irons were perfect. He said to a reporter, "Most amateurs don't realize how much a little change in lie angle can help their game!"

And isn't "direction" kind of what golf is all about?

I wasn't trying to discount lie angle. It is very important. I was just basing my opinions off of the information at hand. OP did not mention anything about changes in direction, only in distance, which is why I would lean towards shaft weight as the determining factor more so than the lie angle simply based on the info at hand.

The reason JD knew that the lies were off was because he could look up and see the ball not traveling through the correct launch window. Now he knew this because he is a professional golfer who has hit tens of thousands of balls and knows what his launch should look like. However the distance would not change in this example, only direction.

 

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@Sclaffer - The easiest way to check if your shafts still have the insert is remove a grip or two and check the inside of the shaft.  Of course, this does involve cost since you will need to re-grip the clubs.  Ideally, re-grip the entire set if the clubs are old.

It is possible that you are getting longer distances with some clubs because of the loft (it might be a stronger loft than your Ping Eye2).

Also, the shaft can really affect the distance you hit a ball.  Correct flex, kick point and length can all help maximise clubhead speed.

Lie angle affects your impact position on the club face.  Hit it dead centre and you are maximising distance.

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I have never had much trouble shots going straight left or right (a strong fade is another story!).

I tried the attached tip about marking the ball with whiteboard marker and found the mark on the face is consistent and vertical and half an inch towards the toe. I think that is telling me the club lie is OK, that my swing repeats but that I need to adjust my swing path.

Anyway, on the subject of shafts, the fact that these JZ shafts are stiff and suit me is a revelation.  I suspect they are on the softer side of stiff. My G20 driver with TFC169 shaft is regular and feels a bit soft, but when I try stiffer drivers, the ball tends to fade right.

Can it be that a person uses regular shaft woods and stiff shaft irons?  

 

Lie Angle _ Practical Golf.jpg

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I have now measured the angle between my 6 iron shafts and the ground Using a drafting adjustable set square: ISI K 62.5, G5 60.0 Eye 2 57.5. I may be a couple of degrees out but these figures tend to confirm the ISIK are white dot. A bit odd the G5 and Eye2 are not the same. Never mind, I cannot see or feel any directional effect of these differences.

Because I like the look of the Eye 2 better I am considering swapping just a couple of shafts from the ISI K into my Eye 2 just to see how they play. I can always swap them back. What do you guys think of that idea?

 

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