Flagstick In When on the Green - Effect on Pace of Play

[bkuehn1952]

Based on my limited observation, the ability to leave the flagstick in when on the green has helped pace of play.  Almost universally everyone leaves the flagstick in for chips/pitches or putts beyond 20 feet.  This allows us to give attention to our own pending putt or chip and not have to tend or remove the flag for someone 60 feet away on the green.  It particularly helps when one is playing "Ready Golf."  I can putt with the flagstick in while another player is walking over to his ball off the back of the green.  Previously I would have waited for the other player to walk over and chip/pitch with the flagstick in and only then removed the flagstick for my putt.

We also have the first player to hole out act as "caddie" if others want the flagstick in or out so that process rarely slows things down.

What does everyone else think?

[dennyjones]

There is one guy in our regular foursome that just need a swift kick in the pants sometimes.   We have convinced him that putting with the flagstick in will help his putting.   We have improved our rounds almost 15 minutes.      

[Golfingdad]

50 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Based on my limited observation, the ability to leave the flagstick in when on the green has helped pace of play.  Almost universally everyone leaves the flagstick in for chips/pitches or putts beyond 20 feet.  This allows us to give attention to our own pending putt or chip and not have to tend or remove the flag for someone 60 feet away on the green.  It particularly helps when one is playing "Ready Golf."  I can putt with the flagstick in while another player is walking over to his ball off the back of the green.  Previously I would have waited for the other player to walk over and chip/pitch with the flagstick in and only then removed the flagstick for my putt.

We also have the first player to hole out act as "caddie" if others want the flagstick in or out so that process rarely slows things down.

What does everyone else think?

My (few) experiences have been similar, however, I'd say it's had almost no effect on pace.  Any effect is positive, but I think it's about negligible.

[Wally Fairway]

There has been a slight improvement, however one guy still likes it out on shorter putts so someone has to tend it if he's in the group.

Overall it's not a big improvement because most of the guys I'd play with you could pretty much putt with the pin in if you were more than 25 feet away & someone would be close enough to grab it if you were actually close. 

And my one buddy still plumb-bobs, which is a waste of time; but it is his habit and he's a pretty good putter so he isn't about to change his routine. That does slow thing down, but most of the time it just gives me a laugh - until he drops a bomb.

[DaveP043]

I'm pretty certain it hasn't slowed things down, as many people had anticipated.  On the other hand, I'm not sure things have gotten much faster either.  Most of the guys I play with will happily leave the flag in, a few prefer it out for shorter putts, and we handle it all easily, with reasonable communication.  I can't say I've noticed rounds being shorter, so I voted "no effect."

[billchao]

I haven't noticed a difference in pace of play. Fast players still play fast, slow players are still slow. The few seconds each hole we save on nobody needing to pull the flag don't make a noticeable difference at the end of the round when you factor in everything else.

[Patch]

In, or out, I have not seen the flag stick effect pace of play.

At least not enough to make up for any of the lost time, that occurred off the tee, or longer fairway shots, where the golfer has to spend time looking for a lost ball. 

 

 

[iacas]

4 hours ago, billchao said:

I haven't noticed a difference in pace of play. Fast players still play fast, slow players are still slow. The few seconds each hole we save on nobody needing to pull the flag don't make a noticeable difference at the end of the round when you factor in everything else.

This.

I've seen it slow up groups, too, when someone wants it back in.

And I'm under then impression that many people still want it back in, but feel awkward asking.

[Shindig]

I don't think it's had a big effect on pace of play.  My usual group all keep it in, and when I'm paired with someone who wants it out, I don't ask for it back in.  That's part shyness and part that so few of my putts even scare the hole I'd be embarrassed to ask for it back in and then putt to nowhere near it.  Plus I worry that putting the flag in signals to the group behind us to hit up.

But I don't think it's affected pace as much as I thought it would back in January. 

[Missouri Swede]

Almost without exception, we catch up to another group (if not at the 1st tee), and that’s our pace of play limitation. We can pull the pin, put it back in, pull it again, and still catch up. (Note: we’re usually a group of 2 or 3, so that’s a factor in our group’s speed.)

[Billy Z]

I like it in for lagging, but out for short putts. Most people I golf with like this format. Many say what I feel, that the hole looks bigger with the stick out. 

[mcanadiens]

The last couple of times I played in my association's quota games, I've been with people that reflexively pull the flagstick. Both times, I mentioned my preference early on, but let it go after that. Playing as brutally as I have been, it just seemed like a waste of time to ask for it back in.

 

[Groucho Valentine]

For walking groups, i feel like the pace is slightly quicker not having to worry about pulling the stick. Everyone just goes to their own ball and plays it up. Probably only saves a few minutes a round, but it feels more economic. 

[David in FL]

Maybe a very slight increase as everyone tends to get to their own ball a little quicker for long putts.  For the most part, I don’t really think it’s affected overall POP though...

Interestingly, I’m finding that most better players have landed on removing the pin for most shorter putts.  I’ve had enough short putts not go that I now pull it too.  That doesn’t seem to have affected POP either though…

[Zippo]

I don't think there's any one thing that magically fixes pace of play but I think having the flagstick in helps. The one detriment I see are those idiots who sink their putts then walk up, grab the flagstick and jerk it up out of the hole instead of reaching down and removing their ball.

[David in FL]

17 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

There has been a slight improvement, however one guy still likes it out on shorter putts so someone has to tend it if he's in the group.

 

Hopefully he’s not asking for the pin to be tended on short putts...

[HJJ003]

No major change as far as I am concerned. Played behind a slow group yesterday....they were just slow..not matter what they did with the pin. 

[David in FL]

1 minute ago, Zippo said:

I don't think there's any one thing that magically fixes pace of play but I think having the flagstick in helps. The one detriment I see are those idiots who sink their putts then walk up, grab the flagstick and jerk it up out of the hole instead of reaching down and removing their ball.

I actually talked to our general manager about that. I see an absolute issue with the holes getting beat up more than they previously did. Whether it’s because of the flagstick being yanked out, or people not being careful when they reach down with the flagstick still in to pull their ball out.   He was good enough to include a note in one of his course update emails regarding the subject.   Sadly, I doubt that it will help…