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mecoleman

Taught vs. Unique Swings (The Right Elbow)

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When I first started playing, I had what some call the "flying elbow."  When I started playing more consistently, I learned to tuck my elbow in on the takeaway.  What happened was I could hit my irons and wedges straighter and more consistently, but I've lost a lot of power on my driver.  I know that Nicklaus had an elbow that wasn't tucked, and his explanation was that it generated more power.  I see others with untucked elbows, and their drives are consistently longer than mine.

I'm thinking about letting loose with my driver and woods and seeing what happens.  I have a history of lower back problems and herniated discs (they both needed epidurals), so simply increasing my turn or torque is not an option.  I know the young guns on Tour have a severe right elbow tuck throughout their swing, but I am neither young or on Tour.

As we all know, if you go looking for advice on the internet, you end up in a veritable rabbit hole with contradicting tips and "expert" opinions.  The Golf Section of the local bookstore is jam-packed with books which promote or disapprove of the right elbow, the planted lead foot, etc.

Without getting into weight shift and angle of attack, what are your thoughts on this?

 

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I’ve been working on getting more inside and eliminating as much as I can of an outside-in swing, which creeps in as I swing harder.  Overall I’m a lot more consistent, but I have lost distance, especially with my longer clubs.

Based on your post, I decided to loosen my right elbow a bit on the range.  Didn’t work very well until I backed a little further away from the ball.  Not tucking the elbow felt pretty natural and I had enough room to bring the club down and not out.  Now tomorrow might be a different story, but for now...

John

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I have my elbow in close, but not jammed into the body. This basically makes certain the club comes in more on proper arc, while providing a good strike. I don't feel like a disconnected elbow will get you more length, just inconsistency and less solidity in strike. But don't jam the elbow, just keep it close.

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On 9/13/2019 at 5:02 PM, 70sSanO said:

I’ve been working on getting more inside and eliminating as much as I can of an outside-in swing, which creeps in as I swing harder.  Overall I’m a lot more consistent, but I have lost distance, especially with my longer clubs.

Based on your post, I decided to loosen my right elbow a bit on the range.  Didn’t work very well until I backed a little further away from the ball.  Not tucking the elbow felt pretty natural and I had enough room to bring the club down and not out.  Now tomorrow might be a different story, but for now...

John

Be sure and film yourself. You probably have a better sense of feel than  I do but I know I really don’t know if I’m making any real changes without video to review.

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On 9/11/2019 at 8:57 AM, mecoleman said:

When I first started playing, I had what some call the "flying elbow."  When I started playing more consistently, I learned to tuck my elbow in on the takeaway.  What happened was I could hit my irons and wedges straighter and more consistently, but I've lost a lot of power on my driver.  I know that Nicklaus had an elbow that wasn't tucked, and his explanation was that it generated more power.  I see others with untucked elbows, and their drives are consistently longer than mine.

I'm thinking about letting loose with my driver and woods and seeing what happens.  I have a history of lower back problems and herniated discs (they both needed epidurals), so simply increasing my turn or torque is not an option.  I know the young guns on Tour have a severe right elbow tuck throughout their swing, but I am neither young or on Tour.

As we all know, if you go looking for advice on the internet, you end up in a veritable rabbit hole with contradicting tips and "expert" opinions.  The Golf Section of the local bookstore is jam-packed with books which promote or disapprove of the right elbow, the planted lead foot, etc.

Without getting into weight shift and angle of attack, what are your thoughts on this?

 

Try standing further from the ball. I had a flying elbow and it has helped. 

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On 9/15/2019 at 6:48 PM, Vinsk said:

Be sure and film yourself. You probably have a better sense of feel than  I do but I know I really don’t know if I’m making any real changes without video to review.

Good idea.  Right now all I care about is adding distance, and of course I still want to hit it where I want it to go... within reason.

John

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On 9/11/2019 at 7:57 AM, mecoleman said:

When I first started playing, I had what some call the "flying elbow."  When I started playing more consistently, I learned to tuck my elbow in on the takeaway.  What happened was I could hit my irons and wedges straighter and more consistently, but I've lost a lot of power on my driver.  I know that Nicklaus had an elbow that wasn't tucked, and his explanation was that it generated more power.  I see others with untucked elbows, and their drives are consistently longer than mine.

I'm thinking about letting loose with my driver and woods and seeing what happens.  I have a history of lower back problems and herniated discs (they both needed epidurals), so simply increasing my turn or torque is not an option.  I know the young guns on Tour have a severe right elbow tuck throughout their swing, but I am neither young or on Tour.

As we all know, if you go looking for advice on the internet, you end up in a veritable rabbit hole with contradicting tips and "expert" opinions.  The Golf Section of the local bookstore is jam-packed with books which promote or disapprove of the right elbow, the planted lead foot, etc.

Without getting into weight shift and angle of attack, what are your thoughts on this?

 

 

Lately I have noticed that rolling/bending my wrists very naturally, simply with gravity and weight of the club, just at the top of my backswing is what makes a huge difference in my power. I try not to worry about chicken winging it either; it just leads to tension in my shoulders. But this very subtle fall into place, if you will, puts shaft at parallel with the ground and perpndicular with my spine, even though it may FEEL like I am over swinging like John Daly.

 

Watching the differences of allowing it to happen rather than not, just simply by not wanting to complicating things and ADD movement in my backswing, surprisingly adds very little noticeable 'length' to the swing, but that extra inch or two, done ironically by NOT fighting it and allowing gravity to take over, adds 15 yards on even my short irons, and makes for a very ideal, high velocity and ball flight. It also often squares my clubface more naturally at impact and it has allowed me to hit the ball straight without using a power draw all the time for added distance.

 

And it turns my 3 wood into my driver off of the tee. Haven't used a driver since last fall.

 

Hopefully that will serve you as well it has I, and you will be grippin it and rippin it.

 

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4 hours ago, iYelledFOREatTheHOLE said:

 

Lately I have noticed that rolling/bending my wrists very naturally, simply with gravity and weight of the club, just at the top of my backswing is what makes a huge difference in my power. I try not to worry about chicken winging it either; it just leads to tension in my shoulders. But this very subtle fall into place, if you will, puts shaft at parallel with the ground and perpndicular with my spine, even though it may FEEL like I am over swinging like John Daly.

 

Watching the differences of allowing it to happen rather than not, just simply by not wanting to complicating things and ADD movement in my backswing, surprisingly adds very little noticeable 'length' to the swing, but that extra inch or two, done ironically by NOT fighting it and allowing gravity to take over, adds 15 yards on even my short irons, and makes for a very ideal, high velocity and ball flight. It also often squares my clubface more naturally at impact and it has allowed me to hit the ball straight without using a power draw all the time for added distance.

 

And it turns my 3 wood into my driver off of the tee. Haven't used a driver since last fall.

 

Hopefully that will serve you as well it has I, and you will be grippin it and rippin it.

 

Why can’t you do the same but with driver?

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On 9/21/2019 at 12:48 PM, Vinsk said:

Why can’t you do the same but with driver?

My driver broke last season 😂 Dropped it on the concrete and the shaft just broke. Haven't needed to repair it yet, and I enjoy learning to play without one.

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On 9/17/2019 at 7:37 PM, Sandhills Golfe said:

Try standing further from the ball. I had a flying elbow and it has helped. 

Old, less flexible guy here. I had an instructor watch and film a few 7 iron swings. Oddly, I found standing a little closer and taller at address keeps my elbow in a good position going back and has led to a better my side bend (elbow in) coming into the ball. Even my buckle facing forward is better.

On 9/21/2019 at 8:34 AM, iYelledFOREatTheHOLE said:

I try not to worry about chicken winging it either; it just leads to tension in my shoulders.

That's the other thing...I avoid getting all bound up and hunched up, from grip to shoulders. All I have described has let me lift my left heel, make a little turn and swing with rhythm. Now I'm working to get my GHIN back down. A few good rounds are encouraging. Best, -Marv

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On 9/26/2019 at 5:55 AM, MarvChamp said:

That's the other thing...I avoid getting all bound up and hunched up, from grip to shoulders. All I have described has let me lift my left heel, make a little turn and swing with rhythm. Now I'm working to get my GHIN back down. A few good rounds are encouraging. Best, -Marv

Decades ago I lifted my left heel without issues.  When I got back playing again I fought against lifting my left heel.  And if I did I would end up not shifting weight on the downswing or end up with too much weight on m right side.

I am trying to setup with my hands a tad higher, which seems to give me a bit more room.  But the biggest improvement is starting my downswing with my left heel.

I could never do this in years past.  But if I plant and then rotate the lower body, it really seems to help.  It does smooth things out a lot.  At 67 I’m trying to get a bit more (keep) distance and keep too much stress off my back.

John

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On 9/30/2019 at 11:27 AM, 70sSanO said:

Decades ago I lifted my left heel without issues.  When I got back playing again I fought against lifting my left heel.  And if I did I would end up not shifting weight on the downswing or end up with too much weight on m right side.

I am trying to setup with my hands a tad higher, which seems to give me a bit more room.  But the biggest improvement is starting my downswing with my left heel.

I could never do this in years past.  But if I plant and then rotate the lower body, it really seems to help.  It does smooth things out a lot.  At 67 I’m trying to get a bit more (keep) distance and keep too much stress off my back.

John

I could never get the timing of the left foot down. But, always wanted to as it is an easy way to start from the ground up.

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Try everything you want and take some weeks to know if it works or not. 

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4 hours ago, p1n9183 said:

Try everything you want and take some weeks to know if it works or not. 

And while you’re at it...ingrain some bad habits and compensations....it’ll work juuuust fine..😀

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10 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

And while you’re at it...ingrain some bad habits and compensations....it’ll work juuuust fine..😀

Don't worry they have books for undoing those. Like David Leadbetter's 1938274390 Faults and Fixes 😅😂

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I got coaching when I was about 12 or so and been playing on and off ever since then.  I have always had a 'flying elbow'.  It seems to work for me, though I do hit quite a few fades (coming over the top).  But when I get everything right, the flying elbow does not affect my accuracy or distance.  Don't worry so much about it if you have the line and length down pat

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1 hour ago, pganapathy said:

I got coaching when I was about 12 or so and been playing on and off ever since then.  I have always had a 'flying elbow'.  It seems to work for me, though I do hit quite a few fades (coming over the top).  But when I get everything right, the flying elbow does not affect my accuracy or distance.  Don't worry so much about it if you have the line and length down pat

Yeah there’s a guy I play with from time to time who’s an ex MLB player and his trail elbow almost points to the sky on his back swing. Starts with his club face about 40* closed and 6” behind the ball. Guys like this kill me. Catches the ball solid most the time. I dunno how they do it.

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